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Thread: Election 2020

  1. #2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Masher View Post
    When you ask poll questions about whether folks want what Bernie and Warren want, it makes sense people would say yes, because in a perfect world, who wouldn't want those things? But when you ask about what people will give up to get those things, specifically how much they'd pay for them, the numbers change. I think there is still a lot of worry/concern about how much these plans are going to cost among most Americans, even ones, like me, who want some of these things.

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    Exactly. In a vacuum the policies are popular. When off set against the costs, they may well not be as popular. The time to figure that out is now, not in November, 2020.

  2. #2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by TranaGreg View Post
    This is a good observation. This is strictly anecdotal, but my observations from spending a lot of time with family & friends in the states are that this is one area where Americans & Canadians differ significantly. Simply put, American on the whole (including those who self identify as democrats) are much more sensitive to tax increases relative to us north of the border.

    Regardless of the merits of that (social contract and all that ...) ... but from my experience there definitely is a difference.
    Yeah, if you told Canadians that they would get a massive tax break, thousands per year, in exchange for switching to private health insurance, how many people would support that? Like, 3% of the country? 10%?

    Bernie polls as the most trusted candidate to tackle health care, and it's clear that his conviction is what you need. Warren's earlier wishy-washy health care position should be a red flag to all primary voters that she's not going to fight as hard as Bernie would, plain and simple. It's not pragmatism to be open-minded about compromising on fucking healthcare. Its weak.

  3. #2013
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    Quote Originally Posted by nots View Post
    Exactly. In a vacuum the policies are popular. When off set against the costs, they may well not be as popular. The time to figure that out is now, not in November, 2020.
    The cost of Sanders healthcare plan would save people more in insurance and other costs than the raise in taxes. You should see the clip of Chris Matthew's badgering Liz Warren saying "Your healthcare plan raises taxes, how do you defend that?" She says "it lowers costs so personal healthcare spending goes down", and he says "yeah, but taxes go up", and she says "yeah, but costs go down", and they go back and forth about 10 times like that.

    Mainstream media will continue with the right wing framing of the issue, and that may persuade voters to buy into the lies. But if Warren and Bernie frame it as "everybody with healthcare coverage is paying a service tax by not having it covered, like citizens from every other developed country in the world. If you take away the service tax for healthcare, the raise in personal taxes will be smaller, therefore, everybody is gonna save money, and 85 million Americans currently uninsured or underinsured will gain full coverage, with lower cost to them." Frame it as a health tax, a service tax, a life tax, whatever. But you need to pay it, and I (as a Canadian) don't. That's a tax.

  4. #2014
    the problem is that Obama promised that households would save $2,500 per year with Obamacare when - as his aides later admitted - everybody involved knew it was a bald-faced lie.

    maybe Medicare-for-all saves people money overall, maybe it doesn't. but it is running into that headwind, alas.
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  5. #2015
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Jude View Post
    the problem is that Obama promised that households would save $2,500 per year with Obamacare when - as his aides later admitted - everybody involved knew it was a bald-faced lie.

    maybe Medicare-for-all saves people money overall, maybe it doesn't. but it is running into that headwind, alas.
    I agree. But I think Bernie is a lot more genuine than Obama (and by association, Biden). I think people will come to see that.

    Harris' plan is really really bad though. Even Biden took a shot at the 10 year implementation window. Bernie's 4 year implementation is actually longer than the 2 year window proposed by another Med4All bill (cannot recall details).

  6. #2016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Masher View Post
    I know this is shallow and not relevant, but Tulsi is looking real purty tonight.
    That was also my 10-year-old daughter's takeaway from the debate.

  7. #2017
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    I want to live in a country that would choose Elizabeth Warren for President, but have serious doubts that I presently live in such a country. Ultimately she strikes me as clearly the most intelligent, hard working, prepared and principled. Other candidates check off some of those boxes, too, but she checks all of them off best.

  8. #2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    I want to live in a country that would choose Elizabeth Warren for President, but have serious doubts that I presently live in such a country. Ultimately she strikes me as clearly the most intelligent, hard working, prepared and principled. Other candidates check off some of those boxes, too, but she checks all of them off best.
    I agree on all accounts. I do think, in the right circumstances, against the right opponent, she would have a shot. I am not sure this moment against Trump is that time.

  9. #2019
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sour Masher View Post
    I agree on all accounts. I do think, in the right circumstances, against the right opponent, she would have a shot. I am not sure this moment against Trump is that time.
    And that's why we're FUBAR.
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  10. #2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Fly View Post
    I want to live in a country that would choose Elizabeth Warren for President, but have serious doubts that I presently live in such a country. Ultimately she strikes me as clearly the most intelligent, hard working, prepared and principled. Other candidates check off some of those boxes, too, but she checks all of them off best.
    You forgot fearless and articulate. We need to play to win instead of playing not to lose (i.e. Biden).

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