Election 2020

[GwynnInTheHall]

In terms of polished political speakers, I think Obama was the last one to get elected on traditional political talking points and style over substance that ultimately meant nothing. Democrats are through with traditional messaging, for the most part. If acting Presidential still accrued meaningful political capital, Mayor Puke would have gone further than he did. Biden's brain melting constantly mimics Trump's "off the cuff" appeal.

Kamala will fail hard as the next in line POTUS, so i have some optimism if Biden wins he would pass the baton to an ill-equipped successor and leave the door open for a progressive challenger. Because progressives say the things that make sense to most working class people of all political persuasions who vote much less than wealthier voters, let alone huge support among Democrats, and yet the party and the media both shit all over progressives and actively fight to keep the status quo managers in place. Well, Biden's mumbling and fumbling might seem reassuring now, but if he's unable to deliver materially in this great depression like situation... it won't feel so folksy anymore. I have faith protests can move him, if enough people mobilize.

Joe Kennedy is the latest victim to trust in meaningless platitudes and name value to carry the day, and even with the endorsements of Pelosi and more, the Kennedy still lost. So i have a bit of optimism we've entered a new era.

I don't get it--are you saying that Progressives want a Trump like candidate? That intelligence doesn't matter to them? That if you're a working class citizen you have to be susceptible to Trump like Idiocy?

I understand your concern with Biden, but Harris? I think she'll kick ass--literally. Is she AOC or Sanders, No, but if you've been paying attention, the platform has already shifted quite a bit toward progressive's Ideals and if the pull a switcheroo, vote em out in 24.

I get it, you can't stand anyone who has ever stood up for Law enforcement, and I understand why--but you're flat out wrong to generalize when it comes to these things, it's lazy and you're better than Lazy. Each individual should be judged on their own merit, UNTIL they prove they don't deserve your respect. Yes some systematic shit makes a whole group look bad, and yes there are despicable people in and running our Law Enforcement Agencies, but dude--to basically say--Biden/Harris will be no better than Trump over the next 4 years or that it will somehow stunt the progress of our movement--is just not correct.

Love ya man, but right now--I think you're way off. Have an edible, chill for a bit, whatever it takes to re-focus. We'll be here for you.

[Teenwolf]

I don't get it--are you saying that Progressives want a Trump like candidate? That intelligence doesn't matter to them? That if you're a working class citizen you have to be susceptible to Trump like Idiocy?

I understand your concern with Biden, but Harris? I think she'll kick ass--literally. Is she AOC or Sanders, No, but if you've been paying attention, the platform has already shifted quite a bit toward progressive's Ideals and if the pull a switcheroo, vote em out in 24.

I get it, you can't stand anyone who has ever stood up for Law enforcement, and I understand why--but you're flat out wrong to generalize when it comes to these things, it's lazy and you're better than Lazy. Each individual should be judged on their own merit, UNTIL they prove they don't deserve your respect. Yes some systematic shit makes a whole group look bad, and yes there are despicable people in and running our Law Enforcement Agencies, but dude--to basically say--Biden/Harris will be no better than Trump over the next 4 years or that it will somehow stunt the progress of our movement--is just not correct.

Love ya man, but right now--I think you're way off. Have an edible, chill for a bit, whatever it takes to re-focus. We'll be here for you.

I think its lazy to say that I dislike Harris because of her job as a prosecutor instead of her specific and personal track record. I've gone into Harris' failings here before in great detail.

Recently, her skepticism towards taking a vaccine while Trump is POTUS was a huge unforced error. It was so bad Biden had to come out and set a better example, emphatically stating that he would take a vaccine . Recently Harris has fed into the hysteria that is the left wing equivalent to QAnon, that being the grand conspiracy of Russiagate. This not only looks 100% pathetic, continuing the lies and propaganda that HRC was using as recently as this spring, calling Bernie Sanders and Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein, and other progressives "Russian assets". Harris' focus on playing politics over producing materially for people was evident throughout the primaries, as she did a 180 on M4A, saying she misheard the question! Her final debate before exiting included an impassioned argument about how Trump should be de-platformed off Twitter! She is horrible. She has been horrible consistently, and she's not stopped being so.

I have been paying attention to a lot of details. Don't pretend my dislike of Harris is based on being uninformed.

[gcstomp]

teen as usual, i could not disagree with you more on your views. I am also sure you will misread and otherwise mis-characterize what I say, as I can lean on history to know that you have trouble with my posts. Harris was THE pick to strength ticket, just a serious person with track record of being able to in real time check someone in a debate, or in questioning. Her last twitter post some 9 hours ago was stands with Joe to pursue "comprehensive plan to combat structural inequities in our nation starts by rooting out systemic racism from our laws, our policies, and our institutions."

Compare to any of trumps last posts, in past few hours
"Never forget, they are coming after ME, because I am fighting for YOU!". and 2 minutes later his repost of "Donald is a Kingly, Kind, and Keen (lots of K's) Leader that is having to fight the Democratic lies at every turn.��
Listen to His words. Believe Him. Cherish the #MAGAlingus that only He can provide. Fall to your knees and embrace His #MAGA! ��TRUST TRUMP TRUTH!"

Sigh, just crazy that is what half the country thinks. Compare rational post from Harris, to unhinged trump posts. In any case, teen, you have again and again been saying you are off russia, now calling russiagate (this is term do left people use this?) as QAnon equal. The deal is russia has been involved, and thoroughly demonstrated as such, not just in the literal hundreds of examples of trump being deferential to putin at same time as he actively trashes every long time U.S. ally and agreement, and in the pt 2 of mueller report where the interference and involvement was detailed. The Helsinki moment when trump publicly sided with believing putin over our own combined intel agencies. Just recently with Woodward book Coates has numerous times detailed how putin must have something on trump as Woodward wrote that Coats thought, “how else to explain the president’s behavior? Coats could see no other explanation.” https://thehill.com/homenews/adminis...d-something-on

I dont think it is a big deal that you make it a point of going out of your way, to say, I was on a track where I thought russia was part of something, now I know better, now I have moved on, oh how silly to think russia is something here and it is left equal to QAnon. That is your very wrong view, we have so many more points of evidence in our fact trail, if you pursued we could have an endless thread of how established it is that russia has had heavy hand on trump, on the kowtow behavior of trump, putins most public sycophant. But it is not important, you should be able to support biden, and harris, and do so without mentioning your awesomely wrong pov that russia is red herring, simply dont mention it, no one else keeps bringing it up except as response to you.

Biden is strong candidate, if you actually have watched his past few appearances he has looked and sounded great, certainly better than for instance trump in his last town hall where trump got rolled up by simple soft ball questions. Harris is a different level of smart and will serve as the effective battering ram through stale lies posed before her. You do not like this ticket, great, you have said it, you have virtually campaigned as a double overtime trump supporter to trash biden/harris. To what end? Someone who cant vote, spends so many hours endlessly disparaging the only humane, non insane hope in an important election. You could do something more productive like kicking stray dogs, spray painting hate symbols on Walmarts, and coloring out all the Wheres Waldo characters from the books to drive people nuts. All that would be infinitely better in the grand scheme than the jihad you are on, to what, discredit biden/harris yet also keep saying, hey trump bad, so this is the option.

[Teenwolf]

Russiagate has been weaponized to attack progressives for the last couple of years. Initially it was used to de-legitimize Trump, but when impeachment failed, it was picked up to use against progressives.

They use Russiagate in the media to say Russia is increasing the racial divisions in the US, they’re spreading lies about Biden's failing mental health, they're paying to finance progressives, and any loud progressive reaction on Twitter has been labeled as "definitely Russian".

As a consequence of Russiagate, only 51% of the country believes that whoever wins the election will do so because they collected more votes than their opponent. Only 62% of the country believe its important that their candidate accept the results of the election. One of the driving forces that will likely lead to people being killed in the streets is Russiagate. You think destroying Democracy is a partisan activity. Its not.

In light of these numbers, does it seem maybe a little bit relevant that Democrats are de-legitimizing election results before they occur? De-legitimizing vaccines by voicing skepticism? These things have real world consequences.

[gcstomp]

What you are saying is off base. Its fine we disagree, but the sheer posting quantity from you at points compels me to reluctantly respond.

If you could post links, as I do, when posting figures it would help, and if you self check that the site is legit enough for you to stand behind before doing so, even better. No one is saying "Democrats are de-legitimizing election results before they occur". That is what trump is doing, daily, when saying he will not trust results if it shows him losing, and at same time blasting mail in votes, the mechansim promoted by dems to vote during a pandemic, as rife with fraud. Your posting is just so unhinged, but you are not really standing behind it so much as saying "they use Russiagate" "they're spreading lies". You use certain language to distance your self as not owning positions, but at same time keep posting nonsense.

Look, it would certainly be swell if you could stop with russia, as what you are saying is wrong. We can discuss how biden sucks, as you like to say, without posting russia. But when you do go there, at some point, I like to pointout there have never been more clear data points that russia has, and will interfere in election, and on a 1000 times greater scale than for instance china, which is the de facto counter. FBI Director Christopher Wray told Congress just yesterday, regarding widespread russia interference. This is not in form of men in hats and trench coats sabatoging voting machines, but in approach of “malign foreign influence,” with Russia utilizing “social media, use of proxies, state media, online journals, etc.,” as in get millions of people, even people from outside U.S. reposting on millions of sites how russia is a wacky conspiracy similar to QAnon and do this millions of times. https://www.aol.com/article/news/202...says/24623629/

We can draw parallel to masks. Millions are dead sure wearing a mask does no good. MAGA red hats think it is a creation of left to take away their liberties. The fact that we have infinitely more data points to point of absolute certainty that masks do help prevent spread, as well as reduce viral load to those that do get infected so they do not get as sick, is irrelevant.

[chancellor]

I don't get it--are you saying that Progressives want a Trump like candidate? That intelligence doesn't matter to them?

Only in New York City.

[Teenwolf]

Hey, we have some points of disagreement and others where we agree. I'll start with what I agree on. The right wing anti-mask stuff is a much worse public health issue than left wing anti-maskers. However, the numbers show that skepticism to taking the vaccine is unusually high among both parties. If Democrats like Kamala Harris are saying "uh, Trump told people to drink bleach. No, I would not take any vaccine produced by his administration," and other Democrats are doing the same messaging to sow doubt in a potential vaccine, both sides politicizing fucking vaccines to likely kill more people, delay your pandemic longer, etc. Its morally unjustifiable. I applaud Biden for coming out to emphatically state that he would take a vaccine tomorrow if he could. Harris fucked up big time on an important public health issue to score political points and people could die as a result. Your estimation of her debate skill is entirely a production of MSNBC cheerleaders and not reality.

90% of Canadians polled consistently want to keep the border with the US closed indefinitely. We all understand who the disease riddled foreigners are, and we all will take our vaccines when they're made available, NDP, Liberal, Green, Conservative, all of us will take our vaccines. Democrats have politicized vaccines so that if a vaccine were released before Trump is out of office, some not insignificant number of people would refuse to take it and prolong the pandemic and make more people sick and die. Because of Democrats like Kamala Harris.

I'll post a link to a mainstream media source that I trust, The Hill's Rising. I hope it shows you how Russiagate is amplifying the likelihood for the justification of political violence from the left, as they've prematurely stated that A) if Trump wins its the end of Democracy and possibly the world and he is literally Hitler, and B) his win isn't legitimate because Russia influenced the election. This doesn't concern you, frothing at the mouth constantly about how even my criticisms of Biden or Harris make me an evil person? Its insane. I want Biden and Harris to oust Trump just as much as you do, but i don't delude myself into thinking Russia is killing American soldiers with bounty hunters getting paid out. Dude, you were spewing that garbage less than 2 weeks ago on here and it came out just afterwards that it was complete nonsense! I bring up Russiagate because its important that you end your delusions because they are literally dangerous. Focus on the real life voter interference, Republicans sending poll watchers to intimidate, whatever. Find new sources of rage. There are many much more legitimate ones. You'll need to practice for when Biden attempts to bail out Wall Street instead of Main Street.

[DMT]

Wait, didn't you say you would celebrate a Trump win so we, and in particular I, would suffer? So no, you're full of shit saying you want Trump to lose as much as we do. Do you really think we just forget the toxic sludge you spew?

Yea, Kamala acknowledging that Trump has repeatedly demonstrated he only cares about himself and is trying to rush a vaccine out before election day to help him win is totally the same as anti-vaxxer logic. Wrong again.

The Russian bounty story does appear to be bogus, but the Senate Intelligence Committee confirmed that Russia interfered to help Trump win, and they are doing so again, so stop acting like "Russiagate" is a hoax, just like fellow leftists Greenwald and Taibbi who've refused to acknowledge reality because they can't admit they were wrong.

[DMT]

https://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/article/Trump-contradicts-health-advisers-on-vaccine-15576519.php

President Donald Trump's public rebuke of a top federal health official who did not parrot White House talking points about a fast-track coronavirus vaccine is the latest example of the president's effort to enforce an upbeat narrative about the pandemic,even if that does not square with the facts.

Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, is the most recent government physician or scientist to run afoul of Trump's coronavirus message machine. He did so in congressional testimony Wednesday, saying a vaccine greenlighted later this year would probably not be available to most Americans until sometime in 2021 because those most in need would get the first doses. Redfield also rankled Trump by saying face masks are "more guaranteed to protect me against covid than when I take a covid vaccine."

...

"If you want people to have confidence in a national vaccine program, you don't trash the director of the CDC, especially when he was accurately describing the likely timeline of the program," said Tom Inglesby, director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security. "This is the time for U.S. government leaders to be on the same page. Instead it's personal attacks, contradictions and confusion."

[chancellor]

TW - We disagree on a lot, but you make excellent points on the vaccine issue. Not only did that behavior undermine COVID vaccine potential, it's been jumped on by anti-vaxxers as a whole.

I would like to see who's right on Harris' debating capability. I've heard chapter and verse about how smart she is, but didn't see it show in the Democratic debates. That said, all but one of those debates was managed like carnival barkers at a circus.

[Teenwolf]

If Kamala's anti Vax statement wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't have sent Biden out to adamantly state the opposite, that he would trust a vaccine and take it immediately if he could. I find it hilarious that when I support something Biden does in opposition to Harris, its turned into "oh yeah, Trump is the same, sure". Thats not what I've said. I've said her statement was dangerous, Biden's correction of her statement shows that I'm right. Or was Harris right to question the effectiveness of any vaccine released under a Trump administration, and Biden was wrong to refute her by emphatically stating that he would in fact take a vaccine tomorrow if he could?

[revo]

North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena*	Biden 45, Trump 44	Biden +1
Arizona: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena*	Biden 49, Trump 40	Biden +9
Maine: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena	Biden 55, Trump 38	Biden +17
Maine CD2: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena	Biden 47, Trump 45	Biden +2
Michigan: Trump vs. Biden	EPIC-MRA	Biden 48, Trump 40	Biden +8
Arizona: Trump vs. Biden	Monmouth*	Biden 48, Trump 46	Biden +2
North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	USA Today/Suffolk*	Biden 46, Trump 43	Biden +3
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden	ABC News/Wash Post	Biden 52, Trump 46	Biden +6
Maine: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 59, Trump 38	Biden +21
Maine CD2: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 53, Trump 44	Biden +9
Maine CD1: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 64, Trump 32	Biden +32
Minnesota: Trump vs. Biden	ABC News/Wash Post	Biden 57, Trump 41	Biden +16
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Monmouth*	Biden 50, Trump 45	Biden +5
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Florida Atlantic University	Biden 50, Trump 50	Tie
North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	CNN*	Biden 49, Trump 46	Biden +3
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden	CNN*	Biden 52, Trump 42	Biden +10

All polls from the last couple of days from battleground states. All showing a sizable and consistent Biden lead. There hasn't been a single battleground state poll to have drastically shifted in Dump's favor.

Honestly, if these polls are wrong again, they should all just fold up shop. They redeemed themselves over the vast majority of the last 4 years of elections, showing the Blue Wave of 2018, Biden's primary resurgence and in many singular polls such as Doug Jones's victory, so I'm putting some faith that these polling outlets have gotten whatever ailed them in 2016 right.

There's still 3 debates to go and ~45 days left, but Biden isn't hated like HRC was. While it's possible the polls can move in Dumpy's favor in the remaining time left, they haven't budged seemingly in years now.

[DMT]

If Kamala's anti Vax statement wasn't dangerous, they wouldn't have sent Biden out to adamantly state the opposite, that he would trust a vaccine and take it immediately if he could. I find it hilarious that when I support something Biden does in opposition to Harris, its turned into "oh yeah, Trump is the same, sure". Thats not what I've said. I've said her statement was dangerous, Biden's correction of her statement shows that I'm right. Or was Harris right to question the effectiveness of any vaccine released under a Trump administration, and Biden was wrong to refute her by emphatically stating that he would in fact take a vaccine tomorrow if he could?

Ok, Harris' specific statement was improperly worded, but the concern expressed about the safety and effectiveness of any vaccine rushed out before election day, is not. Trump has shown everyone his hand, so if a vaccine miraculously appears without the approval of the top scientists, then you're a fool if you would take it.

Biden didn't say he'd take a vaccine that only Trump approved. Trump touted hydroxochloroquine for months despite scant scientific evidence for its effectiveness. Chance jumping in nice to see (of course never have I seen you post an argument for Trump's reelection), but that study from Henry Ford back in July that you touted turned out to be "flawed", according to Fauci and others.

[DMT]

North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena*	Biden 45, Trump 44	Biden +1
Arizona: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena*	Biden 49, Trump 40	Biden +9
Maine: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena	Biden 55, Trump 38	Biden +17
Maine CD2: Trump vs. Biden	NY Times/Siena	Biden 47, Trump 45	Biden +2
Michigan: Trump vs. Biden	EPIC-MRA	Biden 48, Trump 40	Biden +8
Arizona: Trump vs. Biden	Monmouth*	Biden 48, Trump 46	Biden +2
North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	USA Today/Suffolk*	Biden 46, Trump 43	Biden +3
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden	ABC News/Wash Post	Biden 52, Trump 46	Biden +6
Maine: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 59, Trump 38	Biden +21
Maine CD2: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 53, Trump 44	Biden +9
Maine CD1: Trump vs. Biden	Quinnipiac	Biden 64, Trump 32	Biden +32
Minnesota: Trump vs. Biden	ABC News/Wash Post	Biden 57, Trump 41	Biden +16
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Monmouth*	Biden 50, Trump 45	Biden +5
Florida: Trump vs. Biden	Florida Atlantic University	Biden 50, Trump 50	Tie
North Carolina: Trump vs. Biden	CNN*	Biden 49, Trump 46	Biden +3
Wisconsin: Trump vs. Biden	CNN*	Biden 52, Trump 42	Biden +10

All polls from the last couple of days from battleground states. All showing a sizable and consistent Biden lead. There hasn't been a single battleground state poll to have drastically shifted in Dump's favor.

Honestly, if these polls are wrong again, they should all just fold up shop. They redeemed themselves over the vast majority of the last 4 years of elections, showing the Blue Wave of 2018, Biden's primary resurgence and in many singular polls such as Doug Jones's victory, so I'm putting some faith that these polling outlets have gotten whatever ailed them in 2016 right.

There's still 3 debates to go and ~45 days left, but Biden isn't hated like HRC was. While it's possible the polls can move in Dumpy's favor in the remaining time left, they haven't budged seemingly in years now.

I bet a friend in 2016 and lost and he was gracious enough to bet me again. Trump is done and I don't think it's going to be that close. Whereas the large majority of late-breaking undecideds went for Trump last time, there are far fewer if those now, and I seriously doubt that tends will hold.

[gcstomp]

teen i watched the hill rising video you posted. I cant argue with much of what was said, and checking site it is political leaning centrist with strong truthful facts rating. In particular, the red mirage on election night is concerning, and likely. Repub will have what appears to be a landslide when we go to bed at midnight, as the mail in votes, that will be majority dem, will not yet be totaled. Video linked detailed many states cannot even begin to count those votes until election day, and we know for smaller elections that it took upwards of a week to count.

Re: Harris that I think she is just a monster stud with intelligence, debate, and incisive questioning on floor, this is my belief based on my watching her, not on reading what others had to say as a review of her. I have seen her reduce various execs, Zuckerberg, Barr, Kavanaugh, just on multiple occasions reduce people to simpering bobble heads unable to argue out of their lies. I think she outclasses everybody. That you think different is but disagreement without definitive right/wrong.

Yes, if Biden on taking office, does not go all in on climate change improvements, and does not help main street, but pivots to bail wall street out, yes I will be pissed if that happens. And there will be a crash, anyone who understands bubbles can read TSLA chart vs PE, for instance will admit we are in absurdly overvalued sectors that will blow, and it will be at least as bad as 1987.