What “I” stand for/ want!

[gcstomp]

Greg thats one way to view cost of educating youth. I looked at thread as a fantasy what do you want. I understand country has blooming debt right this second, but passed a mega tax cut for billionaires. Also military budget has been increased outsized to any need, and more than the next 8 biggest military budgets in world combined. The country prioritized billionaires and military spending, which through military contracts backdoors vast profits to the same billionaires again, over everything. Say, instead, the focus had been on education, schools, teachers. Without your tax going up, imagine the priority had been to maybe re focus funds to this area instead of billionaires, and military, which again circles back to same 500 or so billionaires.

Again, fantasy thread, your tax would not go up, we are re focusing our blow out debt, and in this dream the billionaires and military didnt get the resources, education did. The cost of another stealth bomber is roughly 1 billion, for 1 unit. Air Force for years was spending $1,300 for coffee cup warmers, a piece, until the line item was questioned https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...00-coffee-cup/ You could tackle this as what do you wish funds on macro level were allocated to instead, without your property tax going up, just where else could money have come from.

[Teenwolf]

Here's one nobody here will agree with me on... Government pays 100% of student debt. $1.6 Tn. You think the economy soars when you give $2 Tn to rich people? What do you think would happen to the economy if student debt was erased, and all that money was funneled into different parts of the economy?

If you forgive the debt of the lawyer/doctor class, they immediately prop up the housing market by becoming active 7-15 years sooner (those are off the top of my head, but makes sense... I know some heavily indebted lawyers...). But for those folks who wound up with $50K+ debt on a sub $40K salary, that's where you'll see the biggest difference.

I would advocate the same debt relief to pair with free post-secondary in Canada, despite having finished my $30K in debt payments a few years ago.

[B-Fly]

Here's one nobody here will agree with me on... Government pays 100% of student debt. $1.6 Tn. You think the economy soars when you give $2 Tn to rich people? What do you think would happen to the economy if student debt was erased, and all that money was funneled into different parts of the economy?

If you forgive the debt of the lawyer/doctor class, they immediately prop up the housing market by becoming active 7-15 years sooner (those are off the top of my head, but makes sense... I know some heavily indebted lawyers...). But for those folks who wound up with $50K+ debt on a sub $40K salary, that's where you'll see the biggest difference.

I would advocate the same debt relief to pair with free post-secondary in Canada, despite having finished my $30K in debt payments a few years ago.

Just for clarity, is your recommendation that the federal government waive the student debt owed to the federal government, or that the federal government do that and additionally pay off student debt owed to other 3rd party creditors?

[Teenwolf]

Just for clarity, is your recommendation that the federal government waive the student debt owed to the federal government, or that the federal government do that and additionally pay off student debt owed to other 3rd party creditors?

Waive and pay off. It's $1.6 Tn owing, up from $600 Bn just a decade ago. Not sustainable.

I guess they could pay the whole portion off cheaper than 1.6 if they're making deals with creditors, am I wrong?

[B-Fly]

Waive and pay off. It's $1.6 Tn owing, up from $600 Bn just a decade ago. Not sustainable.

I guess they could pay the whole portion off cheaper than 1.6 if they're making deals with creditors, am I wrong?

Maybe with a guaranteed near-term repayment by the government, the creditors would take some percentage on the dollar since they'd be relieved of default risk and/or collection costs.

[Teenwolf]

Maybe with a guaranteed near-term repayment by the government, the creditors would take some percentage on the dollar since they'd be relieved of default risk and/or collection costs.

If it ended up being in the $1.2-$1.5 Tn range, what do you think of it? If the $2 Tn tax cuts went 80% to stock buybacks, I bet you'd see the same 80% of this one going straight into goods and services. Poor folks put their money straight back into the economy out of necessity.

Would love to get your verdict on projected impact, and whether or not you would support it.

[baldgriff]

How about we get the government out of the education business? The "No Child Left Behind" program has realistically created a mentality that as long as kids can pass the standardized tests then what else do they need to know. We no longer teach kids in high school "life skills". To many are grossly unprepared for the world post graduation. So they go get monstrous amounts of governments sanctioned debt to go to college. There are thousands of trade jobs sitting unfilled, because many that should pursue these areas dont because they are sitting in a college class wasting their time and possible future.

Government has created more administrative requirements than actual teaching jobs - at least that is my perspective.

[Teenwolf]

One more. Kill the predatory lending industry and institute postal banking to fill the service gap without a profit gouging incentive. 800% interest loans should not be legal.

Here's the basic definition from google: "Postal Banking is simply the provision of financial services via the Postal Service. The Campaign for Postal Banking is calling for low-cost, consumer-driven products and services that could range from check cashing to bill payment to savings accounts to small-dollar loans."

[B-Fly]

How about we get the government out of the education business? The "No Child Left Behind" program has realistically created a mentality that as long as kids can pass the standardized tests then what else do they need to know. We no longer teach kids in high school "life skills". To many are grossly unprepared for the world post graduation. So they go get monstrous amounts of governments sanctioned debt to go to college. There are thousands of trade jobs sitting unfilled, because many that should pursue these areas dont because they are sitting in a college class wasting their time and possible future.

Government has created more administrative requirements than actual teaching jobs - at least that is my perspective.

I would agree that the government's (particularly the federal government's) education reforms over the past few decades have been a very mixed bag. However, I am always incredibly wary about the "how about we get the government out of the education business" response to that. When the government is not involved, with their responsibility to advance the overall public interest, then you're left with the free market, and the free market generally has no incentive to provide quality services to folks who don't have purchasing power. We've already seen some terrible results where for-profits have entered the charter school sector. I believe it is in the best interest of Americans across all 50 states to provide quality education to all children, regardless of income. The market is absolutely terrible at advancing such an objective. Accordingly, I think government needs to address its deficiencies while retaining the responsibility as the primary provider of elementary and secondary education. The government can certainly pivot to emphasizing for more career and technical education (e.g., skilled trades) if that's in the best interests of the communities served. It was approved in NJ this year as a major bond issue for investment.

[Teenwolf]

How about we get the government out of the education business? The "No Child Left Behind" program has realistically created a mentality that as long as kids can pass the standardized tests then what else do they need to know. We no longer teach kids in high school "life skills". To many are grossly unprepared for the world post graduation. So they go get monstrous amounts of governments sanctioned debt to go to college. There are thousands of trade jobs sitting unfilled, because many that should pursue these areas dont because they are sitting in a college class wasting their time and possible future.

Government has created more administrative requirements than actual teaching jobs - at least that is my perspective.

The problem with trades jobs is a cultural one. Clogged toilets, severed limbs, electrocution... trades just aren't sexy. It takes government incentives of the type you despise to push people into undesirable professions. I hate it too.

That's why a 2 year college degree for a trade will pay $60K to start, and a 4 year university degree plus teachers college gets you $40K to start as a teacher. Relative supply and demand pools.

[heyelander]

How about cutting the school portion in half upon graduation of the youngest. We still contribute to the school community even when benefits are done.

Can I just skip mine altogether since I choose to not have kids?

[Gregg]

Can I just skip mine altogether since I choose to not have kids?

Nope, but you can pay half.

[cardboardbox]

Can I just skip mine altogether since I choose to not have kids?

since youre not spending money on your own kids, you can afford double taxes!

[Gregg]

since youre not spending money on your own kids, you can afford double taxes!

Can they call him Uncle heyelander?

[baldgriff]

The problem with trades jobs is a cultural one. Clogged toilets, severed limbs, electrocution... trades just aren't sexy. It takes government incentives of the type you despise to push people into undesirable professions. I hate it too.

You are correct, it is cultural. And that cultural shift started in the late 70's early 80's when government became more and more involved with the education system (and the lending of money to kids to go to 4 year college). In that era there was a shift in mentality to drive kids to college rather than to tech schools. It was a campaign that essentially sold the idea of working smarter of working harder. It was a changing in values related to work. The supply and demand pool has been created by that mentality and kids now have little if any exposure to technical skills like carpentry, metal work, drafting and other things as they have essentially been pulled out of high schools. I was doing wood work and metal shop classes in Jr High. I dont even think those classes are even offered anymore.