The "problem" as I see it is that the key to winning elections has become less about broadly appealing to the American people and more about energizing and turning out "the base", which leads to more polarization and more extreme ideological candidates. Particularly at the local election level, low voter turnout also makes it much easier for "special interests" to dictate candidates and policy (e.g., the teachers' union essentially choosing the school board that will negotiate their contract).
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Would you support compulsory voting?
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostIn the U.S., we're not too big on "compulsory" anything. the word itself is creepy.
making the voting process easier, that's a different story.
But mandating voting is a bad idea. Too many people vote now that don't really understand who they are voting for and how it affects them. I suspect those who sit on the sidelines, are as a group, even less informed than those who vote currently.
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Originally posted by Gregg View PostOr make them on Saturdays."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostRather than just reacting to "compulsory", what do you view as the cost-benefit analysis specific to the question of compulsory voting?
The main concern I would have from the cost-benefit analysis side: I think forcing people to vote could open the door to significant corruption. It would take unscrupulous partisans about 37 seconds come up with a scheme to have outside parties fulfill the voting obligations of people who are just too irresponsible/ disinterested/ disenfranchised to do it themselves. "You want to avoid the fine? Just send us your ballot, we'll take care of that for you."
If it ever was to be implemented, I think you'd have to include a "none of the above" option on the ballots. Forcing to people to vote if they don't like any of the options would be unacceptably totalitarian.
Bottom line: I'm against it, for the obvious reasons others have already mentioned. I wish all citizens would choose to be responsible, concerned, aware, and motivated, but I'm not comfortable using the force of government to make them so, even if I did believe it was possible. It's not.
Compulsory voting is a Democratic Party pipe dream, born of frustration with low voter turnout within their ranks. Forcing people do the right thing is not the solution. Making them want to do the right thing is. Stop dreaming up tricksy voting schemes, and work on your platform, candidates, and rhetoric instead."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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I have rubbed shoulders with two groups of people who routinely don't vote: (1) people for whom their work schedule makes it difficult, and (2) people who do not find either Republicans or Democrats appealing and don't believe third parties have any realistic chance of changing things.
Addressing group #1 is important, and I don't think we have any shortage of ideas of how to do that. The Republican Party, however, is opposed because they perceive that this group would lean against them. I don't know of any good proposal to address group #2. I am not aware of a large group that is too lazy to go to the polls. I do think in non-national elections that many people feel uninformed and hesitant to vote because of that. I know that when there are fifty judges on the ballot that I find it hard to educate myself on them."Jesus said to them, 'Truly I tell you, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are going into the kingdom of God ahead of you.'"
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Australia, that bastion of totalitarianism! Lol
Like universal health care and eliminating guns, it amazes me how so many think these things are impossible in our country despite other industrialized countries pulling it off. Aren't we supposed to be the best?If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by DMT View PostAustralia, that bastion of totalitarianism! Lol
Like universal health care and eliminating guns, it amazes me how so many think these things are impossible in our country despite other industrialized countries pulling it off. Aren't we supposed to be the best?"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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Originally posted by DMT View PostAustralia, that bastion of totalitarianism! Lol
Like universal health care and eliminating guns, it amazes me how so many think these things are impossible in our country despite other industrialized countries pulling it off. Aren't we supposed to be the best?
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostI think this conflation erroneously puts these things on equal footing. I don't think they are. I think there is very strong evidence that universal health care would not only be an ethical move, it would be a economically beneficial one in the long term. As SS said, there is no evidence to support that compulsory voting is better, even if it were possible.
So in that sense, compulsory voting is different.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by senorsheep View PostDifferent founding principles, different history, different culture. There are countries where compulsory voting might be a fine idea. It's not gonna fly in this one. Not in our lifetimes, anyway.
"Best" as defined how, by whom? I don't think compulsory voting is an objective gold standard for electoral law.If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by DMT View PostBy best I meant that we could accomplish whatever we wanted if enough people committed to it."When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - that's all."
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Originally posted by senorsheep View PostOkay, but viable or not, federal coercion is the wrong way for a free society to get its citizens to vote. Increasing voluntary voter turnout is a far worthier goal. Commitment driven by force of government isn't really commitment at all.I'm just here for the baseball.
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