Why do so many people believe in God(s) when there is no proof that God(s) exist?

[B-Fly]

I also had a problem with the unfairness of the good deeds not making it in. In an atheistic world how many good deeds does it take to erase one bad one? I guess it would depend on the bad deed. Where is the cutoff. Is there anyone that you know that would claim to have never done anything wrong. Do atheists consciously do good deeds with the idea of making up for bad deeds?

Atheism is merely the belief that there is no G-d. It is not otherwise an organized system of ethics, so you can't really ask what atheists believe with regard to good or bad deeds. I presume, however, that you'd ask the same question of Humanism, which is an organized moral/ethical philosophy that does not assume or require belief in G-d or belief in divine judgment/punishment.

Basically, the Humanist idea is that morality and moral behavior emerges from humanity because it best serves humanity and because it best supports individual happiness and fulfillment. Humans form families and societies because they help fulfill human biological and psychological needs. Many important pro-social human behaviors have, throughout human history, proven sufficiently advantageous to be genetically favored through natural selection. Whether or not you view the origin of human compassion as genetically favored, humans across societies express and experience compassion, love and guilt, among other emotions (and positive feedback loops from fellow humans) that generally promote and favor goodness. Meanwhile, we share the laws of science/physics, which usually create the same conditions/problems and call for similar solutions across cultures. And the rules of logic and evidence can apply equally well to all persons.

Formally and mechanistically measuring and balancing good deeds against bad isn't really a thing in Humanism, since there is no belief in an omniscient G-d who can perfectly judge individuals, and no belief in an afterlife with a heaven and hell, with your post-death placement determined by a final divine Judge. So Humanists believe that we have no choice but to develop imperfect human systems of laws and social rewards/sanctions that promote good behavior and discourage/punish bad behavior.

https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/human-basis-laws-ethics/

[B-Fly]

I am curious about something. Most people acknowledge that what Jesus (allegedly) taught is a good thing. If it wasn't Him, who did think of these teachings?

Per what I wrote above about Humanism, I believe that humans have developed concepts of compassion and love and goodness and the Golden Rule at various times and places across human history, sometimes influenced by human migrations and other times arising independently in geographically isolated places. Jesus had the advantage of arising in a literate part of the world such that his philosophies could be transcribed (as well as possibly interpreted, exaggerated or invented by the scribes). Whether he was the first to think of the things he taught, I don't know and would have to do some research. But certainly aspects of the Golden Rule and other humanistic philosophies have arisen across many societies/cultures and I believe that they are sufficiently beneficial for humanity that it would be naïve to assume that their development required the contributions of any one philosopher, although again, a moral philosopher whose teachings are widely distributed (particularly when written and widely reproduced) can have far more influence on far more people than one whose teachings aren't.

[onejayhawk]

I'm just offering my thoughts because I think humanity needs to move beyond religion.

ETA: I'm not personally trying to convert you away from Christianity but I don't think it's a benefit to our species.

Even if you think that atheism is not a religion, for practical purposes it acts like one. There is a social role must be filled by something.

J

[B-Fly]

Even if you think that atheism is not a religion, for practical purposes it acts like one. There is a social role must be filled by something.

Yes, humans need laws and social norms, rewards and sanctions. Religion is hardly necessary for that, however. A legal system and effective set of societal expectations, norms, rewards and sanctions can absolutely be based on non-faith/non-religion principles like those of Humanism.

[onejayhawk]

Yes, humans need laws and social norms, rewards and sanctions. Religion is hardly necessary for that, however. A legal system and effective set of societal expectations, norms, rewards and sanctions can absolutely be based on non-faith/non-religion principles like those of Humanism.

Atheism is a belief system requiring faith. It has all the trappings of a religion, serves the function of religion, and acts like a religion. I never understood why they object to being called a religion.

J

[DMT]

Atheism is a belief system requiring faith. It has all the trappings of a religion, serves the function of religion, and acts like a religion. I never understood why they object to being called a religion.

J

Huh? Faith in what? Reality? Atheism doesn't have the trappings (no worshipping of supernatural deities, no organizations taking advantage of them members including financially or sexually), doesn't serve the function (no comfort in an afterlife), and certainly doesn't act like it. It's amazing that you can actually write this stuff and believe it.

ETA: that being said, I am not an atheist and when arguing with fanatical atheists, they do make the same faulty arrogant assumptions that religious zealots make. Namely, that they have the answers.

[TranaGreg]

Atheism is a belief system requiring faith. It has all the trappings of a religion, serves the function of religion, and acts like a religion. I never understood why they object to being called a religion.

J

I don't celebrate my lack of belief in a god; I have no rituals built around it. I don't commune with other atheists or share any special events related to it. What about it is religion-like? To me, my lack of belief in a god is the same as my lack of belief in a flat earth. It's not a religion, it's just another thing that I don't believe.

[B-Fly]

I don't celebrate my lack of belief in a god; I have no rituals built around it. I don't commune with other atheists or share any special events related to it. What about it is religion-like? To me, my lack of belief in a god is the same as my lack of belief in a flat earth. It's not a religion, it's just another thing that I don't believe.

Yep. Atheism is not a religion. Nonsense statement.

[B-Fly]

ETA: that being said, I am not an atheist and when arguing with fanatical atheists, they do make the same faulty arrogant assumptions that religious zealots make. Namely, that they have the answers.

I agree that zealous belief that one has all the answers looks bad on anybody.

[TranaGreg]

There is not much doubt that if something can be used for evil that it will be.

I am curious about something. Most people acknowledge that what Jesus (allegedly) taught is a good thing. If it wasn't Him, who did think of these teachings?

Jesus taught good things. I think Gandhi taught good things too. My Grade 2 teacher taught good things. But all of these people, as members of the human race, had the capacity to take good ideas & use them in harmful ways (as BFly was discussing).

[onejayhawk]

Atheism is a belief system requiring faith. It has all the trappings of a religion, serves the function of religion, and acts like a religion. I never understood why they object to being called a religion.

J

Huh? Faith in what? Reality? Atheism doesn't have the trappings (no worshipping of supernatural deities, no organizations taking advantage of them members including financially or sexually), doesn't serve the function (no comfort in an afterlife), and certainly doesn't act like it. It's amazing that you can actually write this stuff and believe it.

ETA: that being said, I am not an atheist and when arguing with fanatical atheists, they do make the same faulty arrogant assumptions that religious zealots make. Namely, that they have the answers.

Faith in the nonexistence of a higher athority. As you point out, they proslytize. They have organizations, dogma, missionaries, etc. These are the trappings of a religion. More to the point, they seek to provide the ethical center that has historically been associated with religion. Indeed, many atheist groups call themselves some varient of Ethical Society. They meet to discuss and socially interact with people of like mind. They call their sermons lectures, but what is the practical difference?

Probably the most telling point is the distinction from agnostics. Agostics genuinely are a-religious. Anyone that simply does not believe has a ready made home. To be an atheist, a person must consciously disavow that home.

J

[Fresno Bob]

A philosophy does not equal a religion

[TranaGreg]

Faith in the nonexistence of a higher athority. As you point out, they proslytize. They have organizations, dogma, missionaries, etc. These are the trappings of a religion. More to the point, they seek to provide the ethical center that has historically been associated with religion. Indeed, many atheist groups call themselves some varient of Ethical Society. They meet to discuss and socially interact with people of like mind. They call their sermons lectures, but what is the practical difference?

"they" ... I don't know any atheists who do any of this. I don't know of any who belong to an "atheist group". In fact I've been an atheist for a long time, and I've never even heard of an "atheist group".

I don't meet "to discuss and socially interact with people of like mind", and I don't know of anyone who does.

This is some fantastical stuff.

And if you provide a link to some bizarro group that does, please provide some evidence that it's representative of more than 0.0000007 of all atheists.

edit: actually, the behaviours you posted are far, far more representative of fantasy baseball participants than of atheists.

[B-Fly]

"they" ... I don't know any atheists who do any of this. I don't know of any who belong to an "atheist group". In fact I've been an atheist for a long time, and I've never even heard of an "atheist group".

I don't meet "to discuss and socially interact with people of like mind", and I don't know of anyone who does.

This is some fantastical stuff.

And if you provide a link to some bizarro group that does, please provide some evidence that it's representative of more than 0.0000007 of all atheists.

edit: actually, the behaviours you posted are far, far more representative of fantasy baseball participants than of atheists.

Yep, I identify as an atheist, but I've never belonged to an atheist organization or group. I am a member of a Reformed Jewish synagogue and have spent lots of time over the course of my life in Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform synagogues, despite recognizing myself as an atheist for as long as I can remember.

[onejayhawk]

"they" ... I don't know any atheists who do any of this. I don't know of any who belong to an "atheist group". In fact I've been an atheist for a long time, and I've never even heard of an "atheist group". I don't meet "to discuss and socially interact with people of like mind", and I don't know of anyone who does. This is some fantastical stuff. And if you provide a link to some bizarro group that does, please provide some evidence that it's representative of more than 0.0000007 of all atheists. edit: actually, the behaviours you posted are far, far more representative of fantasy baseball participants than of atheists.

You have never heard of a ethical society? This one self identifies as SJW: https://ethicalstl.org/our-congregation/

This demostrates my point. For whatever reason, atheists hate being identified as a religion.

I agree with one thing. Fantasy baseball fans act like a religious group.

J