There is no proof that God exists

[Fresno Bob]

Fresno, i was kind of hoping you would respond to this one.

Sorry Gregg, must have missed it the first time. I do appreciate that many churches do charitable works, and appreciate it because that's what I take from the teachings of Jesus the man, "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." and all that. I absolutely love Jesus the man, for his politics most of all. Making Jesus a god strips him of his humanity, and forces a hierarchy to exist between man and God.

I just don't understand the point of a "hands-off God". A hands-off God either watches our suffering and laughs or is entertained like a kid with a magnifying glass over and anthill, or just doesn't notice or care, neither one is worth my belief or worship. I wouldn't watch a dog die in the street without helping, hell, I throw worms back in the dirt after the rain, and I'm no God. To have the power to help, and to sit by and do nothing, is selfish at best, and borderline sociopathic in my book.

[Fresno Bob]

Not sure about you but I have not personally been working for 2000 years to try to verify the specific stories. And a religion based on faith is not tailored to the skeptic (like me, believe it or not), so us expecting others to do the groundwork is unrealistic.

Separately, much of the biblical history comes from time periods before there was ubiquitous written history, so questioning them simply due to the lack of evidence is begging the question.

But there's plenty of other verifiable evidence.

There's scientific evidence of a flood of the Black Sea 7000 years ago that matches the Biblical description.
The Hittites were found after previous skepticism.
The Moabite Stone confirms the rebellion of Moab.
There is evidence of the ruins of Jericho.
There's evidence of King David from an Aramaic inscription found recently at Tel Dan.
Roman historians wrote about the execution of Christ by Pontius Pilate.
The death of Jesus was mentioned in Jewish Rabbinical writings.

These are just a few of the more obvious examples. A longer list could be created but I'm not sure that's what you are really looking for here.

When you said there was no evidence and asked for others to disprove you what specifically did you mean?

None of those prove the existance of God, just of geography and history. For example, do you believe that God created that flood in the Black Sea area and warned a 500 year old Noah to build an ark that could hold 2 of every land animal? I sure don't. There are characters and places in the Old Testament that are no doubt true, but I don't believe the fantastical elements. I also believe that Greek and Roman citystates existed, but I don't think that Zeus turned into a swan to fuck mortals, nor do I think that praying to Jupiter brings the rain.

[Ken]

None of those prove the existance of God, just of geography and history. For example, do you believe that God created that flood in the Black Sea area and warned a 500 year old Noah to build an ark that could hold 2 of every land animal? I sure don't. There are characters and places in the Old Testament that are no doubt true, but I don't believe the fantastical elements. I also believe that Greek and Roman citystates existed, but I don't think that Zeus turned into a swan to fuck mortals, nor do I think that praying to Jupiter brings the rain.

You started out comparing the Bible to a cartoon. I understand what you are saying here but the goalposts seem to be moving quite a bit. I think we'd have more interesting discussions if we stick to the original thesis. Shifting them around makes it harder for you to be proven wrong, but its frustrating to just have a discussion when the topic is moving so much.

[Fresno Bob]

You started out comparing the Bible to a cartoon. I understand what you are saying here but the goalposts seem to be moving quite a bit. I think we'd have more interesting discussions if we stick to the original thesis. Shifting them around makes it harder for you to be proven wrong, but its frustrating to just have a discussion when the topic is moving so much.

I'm just trying to react to postings/questions. We are on page 4, and no one has yet offered any proof of the existence of God.

I just have 2 simple questions? Do you believe that God exists? If yes, prove it.

[heyelander]

If yes, prove it.

why?

..

[Fresno Bob]

why?

..

because I asked so nicely!

[onejayhawk]

None of those prove the existance of God, just of geography and history. For example, do you believe that God created that flood in the Black Sea area and warned a 500 year old Noah to build an ark that could hold 2 of every land animal? I sure don't. There are characters and places in the Old Testament that are no doubt true, but I don't believe the fantastical elements. I also believe that Greek and Roman citystates existed, but I don't think that Zeus turned into a swan to fuck mortals, nor do I think that praying to Jupiter brings the rain.

Yet all of them are evidence.

It's actually something you can satisfy for yourself, ie entirely subjective but entirely personal. Simply take a period of time, say fifteen minutes a day, to find a quiet place and center yourself. Contemplate scripture if you wish but ask that God reveal himself to you. Keep a notebook of your thoughts and observations. Do this daily or several times a week for a couple of months and you should have an answer sufficient for yourself. If nothing else, it is useful as meditation time.

J

[Gregg]

Sorry Gregg, must have missed it the first time. I do appreciate that many churches do charitable works, and appreciate it because that's what I take from the teachings of Jesus the man, "whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me." and all that. I absolutely love Jesus the man, for his politics most of all. Making Jesus a god strips him of his humanity, and forces a hierarchy to exist between man and God.

I just don't understand the point of a "hands-off God". A hands-off God either watches our suffering and laughs or is entertained like a kid with a magnifying glass over and anthill, or just doesn't notice or care, neither one is worth my belief or worship. I wouldn't watch a dog die in the street without helping, hell, I throw worms back in the dirt after the rain, and I'm no God. To have the power to help, and to sit by and do nothing, is selfish at best, and borderline sociopathic in my book.

Thank you for answering part of my question. What about the first part?

How long ago was it that we broke bread or in our case pizza?

[Gregg]

"God" is just a leftover from when we didn't understand science. religion is the longest con job in the history of humanity, and basically exists as a tool of social control, primarily to keep women "in their place". I personally have less respect for anyone that believes in existence of any type of god past the age of 10, and find Christians, and specifically "prosperity gospel" christians to be the highest level of hypocrisy

Regarding prosperity gospel teaching:

“There were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you.” (2 Peter 2:1)

This is both a statement and prophesy by Peter; He is first talking about the false prophets in the Old Testament then the false teachers within the Christian community. It is a warning to Christians.

The issue with the prosperity gospel is that it teaches to use God. True Christianity is just the opposite; God uses Christians. This is nothing new, Paul warned Timothy about such men in 1 Timothy 6:5 (5 and constant friction among people who are depraved in mind and deprived of the truth, imagining that godliness is a means of gain.)

You are in good company disapproving of the prosperity gospel.

[TranaGreg]

citing random stories from the bible as factual to prove the existence of god is kinda like saying that the vietnam war really happened so clearly Forest Gump actually existed.

[Ken]

citing random stories from the bible as factual to prove the existence of god is kinda like saying that the vietnam war really happened so clearly Forest Gump actually existed.

They were cited as a counter to the notion that the Bible was a completely fictional account no different than "Snow White".

[B-Fly]

I am an atheist, in that I believe there is no all powerful diety. As for the historicity of the Bible and/or other faith texts, I think these texts embellished oral histories with divine elements inserted to explain natural phenomena the causes for which were unknown by humans at the time, be it the emergence of life or the movement of celestial bodies or extreme weather or famine or disease, etc. The more recent or contemporaneous the faith text, the more I suspect certain geopolitical events and personages are historical, but again, embellished with and interpreted through the invention of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent G-d.

As fresno bob previously alluded, I don't think our earth and what we know about it remotely supports belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent G-d, even if you lean on the "free will" cheat. For example, horrible things can happen to babies that had nothing to do with human failing, be it a lightning strike/natural fire or an animal attack or a flu or a tornado, etc. I've also heard the "tapestry" idea that G-d works in mysterious ways and that the baby killed by an "act of G-d" is in a better place and the loss of a child is supposed to challenge the parent and drive them toward their purpose serving G-d, etc, etc. To me that's just understandable brain gymnastics of people desperately trying to make the horrible bearable, the random rational, the pain meaningful.

I also acknowledge that religion has served positive ends for the human species as well as negative ones. It's not all about controlling people or subjugating women or justifying in-group supremacy, etc. There are some valuable attempts to understand the world and human nature, some valuable moral precepts and teachings, and many people throughout history inspired by their faith to perform acts of loving kindness. None of that, however, causes me to believe in the existence of G-d.

[DMT]

I am an atheist, in that I believe there is no all powerful diety. As for the historicity of the Bible and/or other faith texts, I think these texts embellished oral histories with divine elements inserted to explain natural phenomena the causes for which were unknown by humans at the time, be it the emergence of life or the movement of celestial bodies or extreme weather or famine or disease, etc. The more recent or contemporaneous the faith text, the more I suspect certain geopolitical events and personages are historical, but again, embellished with and interpreted through the invention of an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent G-d.

As fresno bob previously alluded, I don't think our earth and what we know about it remotely supports belief in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient and omnibenevolent G-d, even if you lean on the "free will" cheat. For example, horrible things can happen to babies that had nothing to do with human failing, be it a lightning strike/natural fire or an animal attack or a flu or a tornado, etc. I've also heard the "tapestry" idea that G-d works in mysterious ways and that the baby killed by an "act of G-d" is in a better place and the loss of a child is supposed to challenge the parent and drive them toward their purpose serving G-d, etc, etc. To me that's just understandable brain gymnastics of people desperately trying to make the horrible bearable, the random rational, the pain meaningful.

I also acknowledge that religion has served positive ends for the human species as well as negative ones. It's not all about controlling people or subjugating women or justifying in-group supremacy, etc. There are some valuable attempts to understand the world and human nature, some valuable moral precepts and teachings, and many people throughout history inspired by their faith to perform acts of loving kindness. None of that, however, causes me to believe in the existence of G-d.

So is the "-" just in case?

[B-Fly]

So is the "-" just in case?

Nah, just habit and respect for my heritage/traditions.

[umjewman]

So is the "-" just in case?

Can't hurt to hedge one's bets, right?