Originally posted by DMT
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I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert...
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Originally posted by In the Corn View PostDo we do that for:- Parents with kids on free and reduced lunch
- 100% disabled people
- Students with financial aid
- Those receiving a subsidy from the ACA
Where do draw the line?"You know what's wrong with America? If I lovingly tongue a woman's nipple in a movie, it gets an "NC-17" rating, if I chop it off with a machete, it's an "R". That's what's wrong with America, man...."--Dennis Hopper
"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real." -- Klaus Kinski
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Originally posted by In the Corn View PostI did ask about it, and I'm still a little confused by the idea of mandating some type of birth control.
So what if a tiny few of the poorest people in your society play the system? Every system, everywhere, has a degree of wastage. Do they play the system more than tax cheats, or government contractors, or politicians? I don't fucking think so. Why not sterilize everyone who underrepresented their taxes until they pay up? It's only temporary, right? Tax "cheats" cost the system 10,000's X more, so why the preoccupation with a few people whose lives are probably complete and utter shit?
It's ill-thought-out, ignorant, reactionary ultra-right-wing bullshit.
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Originally posted by johnnya24 View PostIt's ill-thought-out, ignorant, reactionary ultra-right-wing bullshit.
Edit to add: It's one thing to say that people should wait until they're financially able to care for a child to have a child. It's another thing entirely to say that the government should be in the business of enforcing that precept by any means necessary.
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Originally posted by B-Fly View PostOr in this case mostly just standard Fresno Bob reactionary misanthropy, since he's clearly never been right-wing. I agree that it's a terrible suggestion, however.
Edit to add: It's one thing to say that people should wait until they're financially able to care for a child to have a child. It's another thing entirely to say that the government should be in the business of enforcing that precept by any means necessary."You know what's wrong with America? If I lovingly tongue a woman's nipple in a movie, it gets an "NC-17" rating, if I chop it off with a machete, it's an "R". That's what's wrong with America, man...."--Dennis Hopper
"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real." -- Klaus Kinski
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Originally posted by johnnya24 View PostExcept Fresno didn't say birth control, he said forced sterilization, you know, like the NAZI's. In fact this is worse than the NAZI's ... they were dangerously deluded and warped by an insane ideology and snake-oil science. Eugenics tended towards the idea of sterilization of the "unfit", like an updated version of Social Darwinism. It was twisted reason and pseudo-science, but they believed it was necessary for the health of the nation /species. As twisted as that was, this is worse. This doesn't get much past the "fuck em" rationality.
So what if a tiny few of the poorest people in your society play the system? Every system, everywhere, has a degree of wastage. Do they play the system more than tax cheats, or government contractors, or politicians? I don't fucking think so. Why not sterilize everyone who underrepresented their taxes until they pay up? It's only temporary, right? Tax "cheats" cost the system 10,000's X more, so why the preoccupation with a few people whose lives are probably complete and utter shit?
It's ill-thought-out, ignorant, reactionary ultra-right-wing bullshit.
"You know what's wrong with America? If I lovingly tongue a woman's nipple in a movie, it gets an "NC-17" rating, if I chop it off with a machete, it's an "R". That's what's wrong with America, man...."--Dennis Hopper
"One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real." -- Klaus Kinski
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"It's one thing to say that people should wait until they're financially able to care for a child to have a child."
it's obvious, but does anyone even say that anymore?finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post"It's one thing to say that people should wait until they're financially able to care for a child to have a child."
it's obvious, but does anyone even say that anymore?
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"Yes, in fact people say that more and more, as reflected by the declining birth rate and the increasing age at which people have kids."
you are assuming that those factors are proof that people more and more are waiting until they are financially able to care for a child before having a child.
I disagree - in those cases, I think it's more logical to conclude that people simply want to be free of the responsibility of raising children for as long as possible, and they are having fewer children as much or more because of the time commitment as the financial one. to the extent that it means they are more financially prepared, that is a good side result.
it's kind of lazy, frankly, to throw the "let's slam the generations after our own" claim at someone with little to no evidence. we both have legitimate viewpoints here, but I'm not going to try to psychoanalyze your rationale.finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post"Yes, in fact people say that more and more, as reflected by the declining birth rate and the increasing age at which people have kids."
you are assuming that those factors are proof that people more and more are waiting until they are financially able to care for a child before having a child.
I disagree - in those cases, I think it's more logical to conclude that people simply want to be free of the responsibility of raising children for as long as possible, and they are having fewer children as much or more because of the time commitment as the financial one. to the extent that it means they are more financially prepared, that is a good side result.
it's kind of lazy, frankly, to throw the "let's slam the generations after our own" claim at someone with little to no evidence.
I can cite a ton of anecdotal evidence of millennials consciously saying they want to pay off their school loans and get a steady job with good health insurance before starting a family. The increased use of contraception, declining teen pregnancy rate and declining birth rates are all very dramatic and at the very least corroborate a conclusion that people of child-bearing age are showing increasing planning and responsibility around childbirth/child rearing. If anything, they may at a collective level be overcorrecting. I see little or no evidence to support "Does anyone even say that anymore?"
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Originally posted by DMT View PostExcellent indeed! Now if we could just eliminate funding for "abstinence-only education" programs, that number would likely fall even further.
JAd Astra per Aspera
Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy
GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler
Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues
I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude
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"I can cite a ton of anecdotal evidence of millennials"
as can I. heck, I have 10 nephews and nieces between the age of 25 and 32, for instance.
the birth rate is declining, without question - but nobody gets to "own" the right answer as to why.
I have a feeling I'm closer to accepting your rationale than you are of mine - and I hope that's not just because you think your anecdotes are better than mine.finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post"I can cite a ton of anecdotal evidence of millennials"
as can I. heck, I have 10 nephews and nieces between the age of 25 and 32, for instance.
the birth rate is declining, without question - but nobody gets to "own" the right answer as to why.
I have a feeling I'm closer to accepting your rationale than you are of mine - and I hope that's not just because you think your anecdotes are better than mine.
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View Post
I disagree - in those cases, I think it's more logical to conclude that people simply want to be free of the responsibility of raising children for as long as possible, and they are having fewer children as much or more because of the time commitment as the financial one. to the extent that it means they are more financially prepared, that is a good side result.
I don't know how one can look at the data in terms of average age of having a first child and assume that people used to consider finances, but now, people are not doing that anymore. Why would an ever increasing delay in parenthood be an indicator that young people are being more thoughtless about the financial burden of parenthood? To me, it is clearly tied to shifting job markets and expectations of level of education. It used to be, most folks could get a good paying job with a HS diploma. Now, much fewer can do that. It used to be a family could live off of one salary. Now, few do that. Both of those things are financial, and there is a correlation between delaying parenthood and an increase in the time people spend getting an education and waiting to enter the workforce and make real money. Seems fairly compelling to me to suggest that finances are at least a factor.
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It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
Bill Clinton 1995, State of the Union Address
"When they go low - we go High" great motto - too bad it was a sack of bullshit. DNC election mantra
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