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  • Entering into the world of hand guns.

    My wife and I have applied for and received our FOID (Firearm Owners Identification) cards.

    We have a gun shop and shooting range about a half hour from our house. We have signed up for a class this Wednesday that gives class room and range instructions. The range is running a promotion in August. Our instruction, one hour of range time, and hand gun rental are all free. We only have to purchase the ammo that we will be using.

    While we are both looking forward to this event we really do not know if we will like it as something to continue down the road.

    Time will tell.

  • #2
    If you don't mind sharing, what led you to decide to become handgun owners (or to at least initiate the process to become handgun owners)?

    Comment


    • #3
      I'll reserve my opinion.

      The fact is, your entire family will be at much greater risk of a shooting now than they were before. You're looking forward to that.
      Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
        I'll reserve my opinion.

        The fact is, your entire family will be at much greater risk of a shooting now than they were before. You're looking forward to that.
        LOL @ "I'll reserve my opinion". I love you, Jesse, and agree with you 90% of the time, but I'm actually going to reserve my opinion and hope he's willing to share his thought process.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
          I'll reserve my opinion.

          The fact is, your entire family will be at much greater risk of a shooting now than they were before. You're looking forward to that.
          The stats on this are undeniable, however, they also illustrate the limits of applying stats to individual cases. Yes, owning a gun makes it more likely you will die or be injured by a gun, whether by someone else or by your own hand. But based on my experience, that is because way too many gun owners do not engage in the careful and thoughtful training in using and storing their weapons that they should. It seems clear that Gregg does not fall into that category, so I don't think the overall stats apply directly to his living situation.

          When I was a kid, my uncle, who has been in prison for murder (using a hand gun to do it) the last 28 years, had guns laying around everywhere in my grandparents home. He used to point them at me as a joke, had me handle them without any instruction or training, etc. Once, when I was 10 and staying with them over the summer, an unarmed robber broke in and armed himself with my uncle's 9mm. He robbed us at gun point, although my fear from him was accidental firing, as he looked scared and was shaking (it didn't help that my uncle was screaming at him in Spanish that he was a pussy and that he should point the gun at him and shoot). It could have gone badly but luckily did not. I also had a friend from HS whose father had guns and one day used one of them to blow his brains out, seemingly on a whim.

          So, I certainly know about the risks of having fire arms in the house. They escalate confrontations, and provide very easy access to a way out for those feeling suicidal (guns are one of the primary reasons why successful suicide rates are 5-10x higher among men than women, despite women attempting suicide more often--men often hang or shoot themselves, which is much more effective than pills, which women often use, maybe for vanity or societal gender norms, idk).

          All that said, the overall stats are not nearly as useful in determining the increased risk of an individual. So many of the stats are skewed by irresponsible and uninformed usage and storage. I don't own a gun myself, but I certainly prefer folks like Gregg, who seems to respect the dangers they pose, and wants to seek training in their usage, own them than some of the folks I know who own them.
          Last edited by Sour Masher; 08-20-2018, 03:09 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
            If you don't mind sharing, what led you to decide to become handgun owners (or to at least initiate the process to become handgun owners)?
            I do not mind sharing it. If I did I would not have posted it at all.

            I also knew before I posted it that it might not be a popular decision with this crowd. That is why I posted it in hot button rather than sports bar.

            I grew up in Wisconsin where guns and hunting were part of growing up. It was a right of passage. It was something I could do with the adults when I got old enough. We had hunting dogs, mostly pheasant hunted with some occasional duck hunting. We were not deer hunters but certainly did not mind those that did.

            Most of the gun usage was league trap shooting. My Grandfather, Uncle, Dad and I shot together from the time I was 13 to the fall of my 18th year. I stopped when I went away to college. I was very very well trained in gun safety.

            I moved to Illinois when I was about 30 years old. I never got my FOID card as there was no one to shoot with. I also didn't seek out shooters. As years went by I sometimes regretted not having the legal right to buy guns or bullets if I wanted to.

            My family and I watched the Top Gun reality tv show a few years ago. I was surprised to learn my 2 daughters and my wife thought it looked like fun. Procrastination ensued.

            My wife was at work and some of her co-workers were talking about their FOID cards. On a whim she looked it up on line filled out the paperwork and forgot about it. 4 weeks later her card came in the mail. Two weeks later I applied for mine. 4.5 weeks later mine came in the mail.

            We have decided that we think we want to shoot handguns. We are not sure yet if we will go for our conceal and carry.

            Both of my adult daughters are interested in taking some classes as well.

            So the main reason is fun.

            Comment


            • #7
              Gregg, let us know how the fun aspect of it plays out for you. While I don't have a desire to own a gun, I must say, I consider it a bucket list item to at least shoot one. I've handled them before, and shot bb guns as a kid, but I've never fired a real fire arm. It is surprisingly difficult to do that in my area. You have to join a club and stuff, and all I want to do is rent a pistol, get some training and fire it a few times at a target just to know what it is like.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                Gregg, let us know how the fun aspect of it plays out for you. While I don't have a desire to own a gun, I must say, I consider it a bucket list item to at least shoot one. I've handled them before, and shot bb guns as a kid, but I've never fired a real fire arm. It is surprisingly difficult to do that in my area. You have to join a club and stuff, and all I want to do is rent a pistol, get some training and fire it a few times at a target just to know what it is like.
                Yeah, I have no desire to own a gun, but we went to a gun range in Vegas for my bachelor party years ago and I will not deny it was fun to fire some of those guns.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                  LOL @ "I'll reserve my opinion". I love you, Jesse, and agree with you 90% of the time, but I'm actually going to reserve my opinion and hope he's willing to share his thought process.
                  I'm glad we have this "hot button topics" forum so that we can be more open about how we feel, though I still try to minimize personal offense unless directly provoked.

                  I'm honestly concerned about anybody who introduces a handgun into their home. I feel it only serves as a comfort blanket for people with specific fears, and that if the gun is ever put to use, (whether brandished or fired) it has a much much higher probability of escalating damage and trauma for all parties involved than if the gun wasn't there in the first place.

                  Even with well-trained and responsible people, the likelihood of accidental shootings or unnecessary escalations are far greater than if that person didn't own a handgun. I'm pretty sure every statistical data point would back me up. Even Sour Masher's anecdote backs up the common sense idea that guns escalate any situation... what if the uncle reached the gun first and blew this burglar's head off in front of 10 year old Sour Masher... yeah, technically, the "good guy with the gun" prevailed over the intruder... having a gun in the open made it necessary to be brought into play. Just like when people feel suicidal, it's brought into play. When it's brought into play, the result is almost resoundingly never an instrument for peaceful resolution.

                  I respect Gregg's idea of personal responsibility is different from my own on this topic. I lament the state of your country, where people literally feel "outgunned" by those around them.
                  Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Gregg View Post
                    I do not mind sharing it. If I did I would not have posted it at all.

                    I also knew before I posted it that it might not be a popular decision with this crowd. That is why I posted it in hot button rather than sports bar.

                    I grew up in Wisconsin where guns and hunting were part of growing up. It was a right of passage. It was something I could do with the adults when I got old enough. We had hunting dogs, mostly pheasant hunted with some occasional duck hunting. We were not deer hunters but certainly did not mind those that did.

                    Most of the gun usage was league trap shooting. My Grandfather, Uncle, Dad and I shot together from the time I was 13 to the fall of my 18th year. I stopped when I went away to college. I was very very well trained in gun safety.

                    I moved to Illinois when I was about 30 years old. I never got my FOID card as there was no one to shoot with. I also didn't seek out shooters. As years went by I sometimes regretted not having the legal right to buy guns or bullets if I wanted to.

                    My family and I watched the Top Gun reality tv show a few years ago. I was surprised to learn my 2 daughters and my wife thought it looked like fun. Procrastination ensued.

                    My wife was at work and some of her co-workers were talking about their FOID cards. On a whim she looked it up on line filled out the paperwork and forgot about it. 4 weeks later her card came in the mail. Two weeks later I applied for mine. 4.5 weeks later mine came in the mail.

                    We have decided that we think we want to shoot handguns. We are not sure yet if we will go for our conceal and carry.

                    Both of my adult daughters are interested in taking some classes as well.

                    So the main reason is fun.
                    Cool, this was posted before I responded. Seems reasonable.

                    If it's in a safe the entire time between gun range use, that's 99% of the problem solved. You seem like a low suicide risk, so no problem there.

                    I would never own a gun, period, but I'd go to a gun range for the marksmanship interest.
                    Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                      I'm glad we have this "hot button topics" forum so that we can be more open about how we feel, though I still try to minimize personal offense unless directly provoked.

                      I'm honestly concerned about anybody who introduces a handgun into their home. I feel it only serves as a comfort blanket for people with specific fears, and that if the gun is ever put to use, (whether brandished or fired) it has a much much higher probability of escalating damage and trauma for all parties involved than if the gun wasn't there in the first place.

                      Even with well-trained and responsible people, the likelihood of accidental shootings or unnecessary escalations are far greater than if that person didn't own a handgun. I'm pretty sure every statistical data point would back me up. Even Sour Masher's anecdote backs up the common sense idea that guns escalate any situation... what if the uncle reached the gun first and blew this burglar's head off in front of 10 year old Sour Masher... yeah, technically, the "good guy with the gun" prevailed over the intruder... having a gun in the open made it necessary to be brought into play. Just like when people feel suicidal, it's brought into play. When it's brought into play, the result is almost resoundingly never an instrument for peaceful resolution.

                      I respect Gregg's idea of personal responsibility is different from my own on this topic. I lament the state of your country, where people literally feel "outgunned" by those around them.
                      I'll add that if my uncle had another gun handy, he would have shot at the guy, and may have hit him, or any of us. It would have been bad. When the guy left, he did find another gun, ran after him into the night and shot wildly. When the cops arrived, they restrained him and he was very lucky they didn't shoot him. Also, he wasn't the good guy, as he proved a couple of years later when he shot a guy 6 times, because the guy discovered he was passing off baking soda as coke.

                      About the US, I agree, it is nuts how many guns we have. More guns than people, although many of them are held by a minority that owns many guns. But if we are talking about gun ownership, Canada is top 5 in the world in terms of civilian owned fire arms too, isn't it? Not as many as the US, because, well, we own more than anyone, but still a lot of guns.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Teenwolf View Post
                        I'll reserve my opinion.

                        The fact is, your entire family will be at much greater risk of a shooting now than they were before. You're looking forward to that.
                        I have a 120 lb. Black Russian Terrier or BRT. He is bread to be a guard dog. He is the first line of defense. His bark alone is enough to scare off most intruders. If you met him you would think of him as a big Muppet clown. He is anything but that. His instincts and high intelligence allow him to react to the situation. If I greet you favorably, you are in no danger from him. If not he will do his job.

                        I have no desire to shoot anyone. If someone gets by our dog they will have to deal with a 12 gauge shotgun. It is locked in a gun case. The handgun would be the 3rd line of defense.

                        I expect not to have to ever use any of these things, but am prepared if needed. I do not walk around in fear or think anyone is out to get me. Sometimes people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

                        Let me ask you one thing. You mentioned the bigots in your area. If old Gregg came upon two of them assaulting your wife, would you rather Gregg was carrying or not?
                        Last edited by Gregg; 08-20-2018, 07:36 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                          Gregg, let us know how the fun aspect of it plays out for you. While I don't have a desire to own a gun, I must say, I consider it a bucket list item to at least shoot one. I've handled them before, and shot bb guns as a kid, but I've never fired a real fire arm. It is surprisingly difficult to do that in my area. You have to join a club and stuff, and all I want to do is rent a pistol, get some training and fire it a few times at a target just to know what it is like.
                          I will share the experience and decisions as we take this walk. If it becomes boring or too long winded or offensive, people just don't have to read on.

                          Any and all comments and discussions are welcome.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Gregg View Post

                            Let me ask you one thing. You mentioned the bigots in your area. If old Gregg came upon two of them assaulting your wife, would you rather Gregg was carrying or not?
                            That's a good question. If Gregg is old he might have bad eyesight or shaky hands. Might end up shooting the wrong person. tough question
                            --------------------------------------
                            You know a girl in a hat is just so…vogue.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                              The stats on this are undeniable, however, they also illustrate the limits of applying stats to individual cases. Yes, owning a gun makes it more likely you will die or be injured by a gun, whether by someone else or by your own hand. But based on my experience, that is because way too many gun owners do not engage in the careful and thoughtful training in using and storing their weapons that they should. It seems clear that Gregg does not fall into that category, so I don't think the overall stats apply directly to his living situation.

                              When I was a kid, my uncle, who has been in prison for murder (using a hand gun to do it) the last 28 years, had guns laying around everywhere in my grandparents home. He used to point them at me as a joke, had me handle them without any instruction or training, etc. Once, when I was 10 and staying with them over the summer, an unarmed robber broke in and armed himself with my uncle's 9mm. He robbed us at gun point, although my fear from him was accidental firing, as he looked scared and was shaking (it didn't help that my uncle was screaming at him in Spanish that he was a pussy and that he should point the gun at him and shoot). It could have gone badly but luckily did not. I also had a friend from HS whose father had guns and one day used one of them to blow his brains out, seemingly on a whim.

                              So, I certainly know about the risks of having fire arms in the house. They escalate confrontations, and provide very easy access to a way out for those feeling suicidal (guns are one of the primary reasons why successful suicide rates are 5-10x higher among men than women, despite women attempting suicide more often--men often hang or shoot themselves, which is much more effective than pills, which women often use, maybe for vanity or societal gender norms, idk).

                              All that said, the overall stats are not nearly as useful in determining the increased risk of an individual. So many of the stats are skewed by irresponsible and uninformed usage and storage. I don't own a gun myself, but I certainly prefer folks like Gregg, who seems to respect the dangers they pose, and wants to seek training in their usage, own them than some of the folks I know who own them.
                              Thank you for the kind words. I do believe in safety first. I also treat every gun always as if it was loaded (even if I just checked it).

                              Regarding suicide; I believe if someone is truly serious about killing themselves we have very little chance of preventing it. I also believe most of the unsuccessful ones are more cries for help rather than really wanting to die.

                              Unfortunately my life has been touched by 6 suicides (two family members) 4 friends (one close). 4 of them accomplished it by shooting themselves. This is a hard fact 3 of them had extensive experience with firearms. They knew it would be fast and painless. That is why they chose it. I do not blame the guns for their actions.

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