Entering into the world of hand guns.

[Gregg]

That's a good question. If Gregg is old he might have bad eyesight or shaky hands. Might end up shooting the wrong person. tough question

Well, Mandy, Gregg is too old to take on two men with his fists (but would probably try) to help someone. The good news is old Gregg's hands are steady and his eyesight is good.

I am told that hand guns are harder to shoot accurately than rifles and shotguns (trap). I do not yet know this.

I will be happy to report my progress on accuracy if and when there is anything to report.

[Sour Masher]

Regarding suicide; I believe if someone is truly serious about killing themselves we have very little chance of preventing it. I also believe most of the unsuccessful ones are more cries for help rather than really wanting to die.

Unfortunately my life has been touched by 6 suicides (two family members) 4 friends (one close). 4 of them accomplished it by shooting themselves. This is a hard fact 3 of them had extensive experience with firearms. They knew it would be fast and painless. That is why they chose it. I do not blame the guns for their actions.

I'm sorry you've lost fiends and family to suicide. A lot of evidence suggests that easy access to a means of committing suicide make them more common. Suicide by certain pills went down when they put them in blister packs. It took that little--the extra few minutes of frustration to get enough pills out--to dissuade some folks.

I do agree that some people are hell bent on doing it, but others do it on a whim. There are times in my life I'm happy I didn't have a fire arm laying around. My morbid half-joking take on it is that committing suicide should require at least as much thought as getting a tattoo--give it six months of serious thought before committing. Owning a gun that is easy to get to makes that a hard thing to wait out.

On the cry for help thing, I agree that is often the case, although not with fire arm attempts. Pill attempts do seem to be often a cry for help. My mother has "fake tried" a few times in her life with pills. None were serious, but I indulge her talking extensively about them, because they've allowed her to express how serious her feelings were of depression during those times. I do wonder how much of the significant difference in attempts vs "successes" between men and women are related to women being less committed to actually killing themselves (and rather are trying to communicate to others their need for help) vs whatever cultural influences play into their preferred methods of attempting suicide. Whatever the case, women attempt suicide more often than men, but men lead in actually killing themselves by very wide margins. Suicide via gun is a very effective method compared to other common methods.

[Hornsby]

Well, Mandy, Gregg is too old to take on two men with his fists (but would probably try) to help someone. The good news is old Gregg's hands are steady and his eyesight is good.

I am told that hand guns are harder to shoot accurately than rifles and shotguns (trap). I do not yet know this.

I will be happy to report my progress on accuracy if and when there is anything to report.

Yes, this is true...if you plan on having a weapon in your home for self defense, a 12 guage is really the way to go. Just hearing the gun rack as you chamber a shell is probably enough to scare any potential invader off...if not, you stand a far greater chance of actually hitting the guy in the event that it come to that.

That said, you don't need to actually buy a handgun if you want to shoot. Most gun ranges rent them, and you can try a variety of them if you wish. So if you don't want one in the home, no need to have one to enjoy occasionally taking target practice.

I took the class, as you know, and don't regret it at all. I decided not to get a gun, I really have no need for one, but i don't deny that it's a kick to go plinking at cans with a friend, or go to a range...

[Teenwolf]

I have a 120 lb. Black Russian Terrier or BRT. He is bread to be a guard dog. He is the first line of defense. His bark alone is enough to scare off most intruders. If you met him you would think of him as a big Muppet clown. He is anything but that. His instincts and high intelligence allow him to react to the situation. If I greet you favorably, you are in no danger from him. If not he will do his job.

I have no desire to shoot anyone. If someone gets by our dog they will have to deal with a 12 gauge shotgun. It is locked in a gun case. The handgun would be the 3rd line of defense.

I expect not to have to ever use any of these things, but am prepared if needed. I do not walk around in fear or think anyone is out to get me. Sometimes people are just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Let me ask you one thing. You mentioned the bigots in your area. If old Gregg came upon two of them assaulting your wife, would you rather Gregg was carrying or not?

I appreciate your point. I believe if you approached the scene with a gun, there's a much higher chance that somebody gets killed... maybe its 90% probability that it's one of theirs that gets killed rather than you or my wife. Not to mention whether the odds of stabbing increase upon confrontation with a gun. But the fact is, upping the odds of traumatic deadly encounter makes me say no. I would prefer you showed up empty handed on that scene, and used all the empathy you had for the racist in the store to talk these harassers down without escalating violence.

I really had to think long and hard, so it's a good dialogue, but I stand by my hypothetical conclusion. I wonder if my wife would agree.

[Gregg]

I appreciate your point. I believe if you approached the scene with a gun, there's a much higher chance that somebody gets killed... maybe its 90% probability that it's one of theirs that gets killed rather than you or my wife. Not to mention whether the odds of stabbing increase upon confrontation with a gun. But the fact is, upping the odds of traumatic deadly encounter makes me say no. I would prefer you showed up empty handed on that scene, and used all the empathy you had for the racist in the store to talk these harassers down without escalating violence.

I really had to think long and hard, so it's a good dialogue, but I stand by my hypothetical conclusion. I wonder if my wife would agree.

If it was my wife in trouble and you walked up, I would prefer you were armed.

I would be interested in what your wife's answer would be (if you are so inclined to ask her).

[mjl]

I do not mind sharing it. If I did I would not have posted it at all.

I also knew before I posted it that it might not be a popular decision with this crowd. That is why I posted it in hot button rather than sports bar.

I grew up in Wisconsin where guns and hunting were part of growing up. It was a right of passage. It was something I could do with the adults when I got old enough. We had hunting dogs, mostly pheasant hunted with some occasional duck hunting. We were not deer hunters but certainly did not mind those that did.

Most of the gun usage was league trap shooting. My Grandfather, Uncle, Dad and I shot together from the time I was 13 to the fall of my 18th year. I stopped when I went away to college. I was very very well trained in gun safety.

I moved to Illinois when I was about 30 years old. I never got my FOID card as there was no one to shoot with. I also didn't seek out shooters. As years went by I sometimes regretted not having the legal right to buy guns or bullets if I wanted to.

My family and I watched the Top Gun reality tv show a few years ago. I was surprised to learn my 2 daughters and my wife thought it looked like fun. Procrastination ensued.

My wife was at work and some of her co-workers were talking about their FOID cards. On a whim she looked it up on line filled out the paperwork and forgot about it. 4 weeks later her card came in the mail. Two weeks later I applied for mine. 4.5 weeks later mine came in the mail.

We have decided that we think we want to shoot handguns. We are not sure yet if we will go for our conceal and carry.

Both of my adult daughters are interested in taking some classes as well.

So the main reason is fun.

So that (mostly) all seems reasonable.

We are not sure yet if we will go for our conceal and carry.

What's that about? I can see going to a gun range being fun, and I can even see hunting being fun, but why do you need to have the gun in your house or, even more strangely, on your person while you're walking around? Is that fun?

[B-Fly]

I shot rifles a few times at summer camp and handguns once at a gun-range bachelor party. Each time I hated it - hated the noise and the smell and the feel. Not for me. That said, I'm fine with gun shooting under controlled conditions at a controlled location. I'm far less comfortable with guns in the home, although I also recognize that there are home gun owners who take all the right precautions all the time.

[Gregg]

So that (mostly) all seems reasonable.

What's that about? I can see going to a gun range being fun, and I can even see hunting being fun, but why do you need to have the gun in your house or, even more strangely, on your person while you're walking around? Is that fun?

I appreciate the dialog. You said "mostly" seems reasonable. Can you expand on that and share what made it go from seems reasonable to mostly seems reasonable?

Regarding the conceal and carry; I really do not know where that will go. I plan on posting our journey as transparent and honest as I can be. At this point I cannot see me actually walking around with a gun on my person. I do think I may carry one legally in my car. I am not sure on that point yet. That would in fact be for protection for my family and myself. I do not suffer from road rage. My job does take me to/through some high risk areas of Chicago.

Regarding my own safety, I believe that I would always choose to run/drive away from a situation rather than shoot someone.

[Gregg]

I shot rifles a few times at summer camp and handguns once at a gun-range bachelor party. Each time I hated it - hated the noise and the smell and the feel. Not for me. That said, I'm fine with gun shooting under controlled conditions at a controlled location. I'm far less comfortable with guns in the home, although I also recognize that there are home gun owners who take all the right precautions all the time.

If that would have been my experience growing up, I doubt I would be pursuing this.

[mjl]

I appreciate the dialog. You said "mostly" seems reasonable. Can you expand on that and share what made it go from seems reasonable to mostly seems reasonable?

Just the concealed carry part. If you're driving around dangerous parts of Chicago and you actually think there's a situation where you'd go for your gun, I guess I can maybe kind of understand it, but that's a detail that was missing from the original description.

[Gregg]

Just the concealed carry part. If you're driving around dangerous parts of Chicago and you actually think there's a situation where you'd go for your gun, I guess I can maybe kind of understand it, but that's a detail that was missing from the original description.

It was left out as it doesn't have much to do with us going on Wednesday. I mentioned it in the attempt to be transparent on my thoughts and actions through the process. I really do know where this is heading.

Conceal and carry (of some sort) seem to go hand in hand with the shooters I have met. I am not sure what to do with that yet. I added the car part in vs. carrying on my person as that is where I am at this moment.

I have driven around Chicago since 1983. I even went (as part of a service job in 1988) to Cabrini Green without incident. Those were rough times. Rougher than now? i don't know. Do I have more fear than now. I don't think so. Maybe just different.

Heck I may just be telling myself this to justify buying myself a pistol to shoot with.

[DMT]

My wife went in to Cabrini (and Robert Taylor) regularly when she did Americorps in 1999. It was horrific.

[Gregg]

My wife went in to Cabrini (and Robert Taylor) regularly when she did Americorps in 1999. It was horrific.

Yikes! I am glad she is ok.


Cabrini-Green

FRANCES CABRINI HOMES, C.1942
Neighborhood in the Near North Community Area. Formerly “Swede Town” and then “Little Hell,” the site of the Cabrini-Green public housing complex was notorious in the early twentieth century for its inhabitants' poverty and dilapidated buildings. During World War II, the Chicago Housing Authority razed Little Hell and built a low-rise apartment project for war workers, naming it the Frances Cabrini Homes after the first American canonized by the Catholic Church. CHA further transformed the area with the high-rise Cabrini Extension (1958) and William Green Homes (1962). The original population of Cabrini-Green reflected the area's prior ethnic mix; poor Italians, Irish, Puerto Ricans, and African Americans lived among the war workers and veterans. Racial segregation overtook Cabrini-Green by the early 1960s.
The large new apartments and large swaths of recreation space failed to mend the area's poverty. The difficulty blacks had finding better, affordable housing gave Cabrini-Green a permanent population. CHA failed to budget money to repair buildings and maintain landscaping as they deteriorated. Cabrini-Green's reputation for crime and gangs rivaled Little Hell's. The murders of two white police officers in 1970 and of seven-year-old resident Dantrell Davis in 1992 drew national attention.

Increasing real-estate values in the late twentieth century led housing officials to propose replacement of the complex with mixed-income housing. Residents argued however that such a move would displace them permanently, completing the slum removal effort begun with the building of Cabrini Homes half a century earlier.

[Fresno Bob]

I've got no guns, but if I was going to get a gun "for home protection" I'd get a shotgun and saw it off to take aiming out of the process. I do have a set of brass knuckles that I carry, and have a fine collection of picks, shovels, bats and other "move along sticks" at all the entrances of my house. But my best defense is my 15lb rat terrier that goes off if people even stand in front of my house too long, let alone if someone touches my gate or is in one of my neighbor's back yards.

She won't kill rats for shit though, had to get some rat traps, have already bagged 5 since saturday

[heyelander]

She won't kill rats for shit though, had to get some rat traps, have already bagged 5 since saturday

California rats are so cute though... they are like little gerbils...