What to do about racism in the real world?

[B-Fly]

Baldgriff, I'm still unsure how or why you even got us onto the idea of censorship/racists not being allowed to speak. I don't think anyone has suggested that. The whole thread has been about how to respond to the racist's speech or action.

[Gregg]

Baldgriff, I'm still unsure how or why you even got us onto the idea of censorship/racists not being allowed to speak. I don't think anyone has suggested that. The whole thread has been about how to respond to the racist's speech or action.

Much of this discussion is centered around shutting them up.

How is tolerance and change taught if there is no evidence of the need for it?

I can speak for myself when I say that when I hear bigoted speech I just want them to shut up. I do not look at it as a teaching opportunity. I am speaking of in my walking around life rather then when I am in a one on one discussion.

[Fresno Bob]

My standard response to blatant racism or sexism is to say "Wow....." to give myself enough time to put my disproving words together

[DMT]

Yea I think those saying Craig isn't attractive are confirming they're not gay.

[Mithrandir]

Yea I think those saying Craig isn't attractive are confirming they're not gay.

Wrong thread.

[Fresno Bob]

Yea I think those saying Craig isn't attractive are confirming they're not gay.

just to be 100% clear, I'm only "gay for pay", and that's just because tops make $10X what the men in straight porn make

[Gregg]

My standard response to blatant racism or sexism is to say "Wow....." to give myself enough time to put my disproving words together

I like it.

[Teenwolf]

"I'm sick of working like a fucking NI**ER!"

This is a quote from my neighbour across the street from me. This neighbour is friendly with at least 3 of my other neighbors, chatting regularly. Yet he glares at my wife and I whenever he sees us. It's a redneck white trash family, impossible to tell who lives in their house, up to a dozen different characters in and out of their clown car house adorned with dollar store decorations and broken down vehicles. Always 4-6 vehicles surrounding their house in various repair. We call them 'Duck Dynasty.' They've had a trailer of garbage in front of the house for days, as one of them is moving out. There was a loud shouting match where they aired their dirty laundry cursing each other out. In the midst of it, he said the above quote to his partner holding a baby.

My wife decided a month ago that she needed to move away because of the overt racism here, and its turned my life upside down. She hardly flinched when he dropped the n-word, it's not surprising these Duck Dynasty fuckers are just as vile as we thought. Painting our house to sell ASAP. My daughter turns 13 soon, and I wanted to stay close to her through 15-16. I might be able to come out solo and work 6 months here each summer, but paying 2 rents will be tough.

Oh, this a week after the latest friends we had in our home expressed disgusting views on the Floyd murder, saying Chauvin did the same thing to a white lady so he isn't necessarily racist, saying the BLM protest was an unnecessary health risk, etc. This friend runs the vegan grocery store, so we can't shop there anymore. I sent him a long letter telling him so, he sent a non-apology, sorry you misunderstand. Its also coming up on father's day. Last year on that day, my sister's partner was in town from Australia, and he made a comment to my wife asking "what's the deal with this trend in black culture where they grind on each other in trees like monkeys?", after which my relationship with my family has been permanently severely damaged... the dehumanization my wife endures living here never ends. So I need to support her leaving. But it's been devastating.

I didn't want to hijack the other ongoing racism threads to tell this story, but I had to share because I'm losing my mind. There's a problem with white culture, it seems.

[Sour Masher]

Oh, this a week after the latest friends we had in our home expressed disgusting views on the Floyd murder, saying Chauvin did the same thing to a white lady so he isn't necessarily racist, saying the BLM protest was an unnecessary health risk, etc. This friend runs the vegan grocery store, so we can't shop there anymore. I sent him a long letter telling him so, he sent a non-apology, sorry you misunderstand.

This bit and you being vegan and giving up on shopping there, which must be a big inconvenience for you, doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I mean, I clearly think Chauvin is racist, and I understand the necessity of BLM protests, but neither view this person expressed is particularly offensive to me, and does not seem to be coming from a place of hate--more ignorance or denial that we live in a world where race is such a big factor, but that denial does not have to come from a place of racism, and often doesn't.

On the Chauvin thing, while I think he would not have done that to a white woman for 8:46, the issue BLM is bring to the forefront, while focused on racism, is bringing to light bad practices and a rotten culture of protectionism that extends beyond racism. Not every innocent citizen harassed or murdered by police is done so for racist reasons. This reckoning is largely about race, but not entirely. If someone exposes that view, I wouldn't stop shopping at their store (although, I guess you see it as a consistent pattern of denying racism is a thing by this person, which is certainly frustrating).

On the BLM protest comment, I take umbrage with the unnecessary part, but there is no denying there is a health risk in the protest. I see how both comments combine to show an ignorance of the level of racism and the import of dealing with it, but I'd say that level of detachment from these issues is fairly standard for most that don't have that lived experience. If your response to such people is to boycott/cancel them from your life rather than try to engage and educate, you will end up pretty isolated in a predominantly white area, and miss opportunities for engagement. It is kind of like the argument for being a vegan as well--you stop shopping there to be absolutely pure in not giving your money to anyone who is racist or even just ignorant of the extent of racism (which seems to me a much lesser crime). But it is impossible to be pure in that way. Just as living ensures you will cause the death of other creatures, and an impact on the environment, consuming anything from anywhere will ensure your money goes to people with views at least on par with this vegan store owner. We can try to strive to do the best we can in both cases, but being too rigid can hurt us and potentially limit our real aims.

In short, if folks like this store owner are put in the enemy camp, you continue to surround yourself with enemies. You risk alienating a potential ally who isn't filled with hate, just ignorance and misunderstanding.

[In the Corn]

"I'm sick of working like a fucking NI**ER!"

This is a quote from my neighbour across the street from me. This neighbour is friendly with at least 3 of my other neighbors, chatting regularly. Yet he glares at my wife and I whenever he sees us. It's a redneck white trash family, impossible to tell who lives in their house, up to a dozen different characters in and out of their clown car house adorned with dollar store decorations and broken down vehicles. Always 4-6 vehicles surrounding their house in various repair. We call them 'Duck Dynasty.' They've had a trailer of garbage in front of the house for days, as one of them is moving out. There was a loud shouting match where they aired their dirty laundry cursing each other out. In the midst of it, he said the above quote to his partner holding a baby.

My wife decided a month ago that she needed to move away because of the overt racism here, and its turned my life upside down. She hardly flinched when he dropped the n-word, it's not surprising these Duck Dynasty fuckers are just as vile as we thought. Painting our house to sell ASAP. My daughter turns 13 soon, and I wanted to stay close to her through 15-16. I might be able to come out solo and work 6 months here each summer, but paying 2 rents will be tough.

Oh, this a week after the latest friends we had in our home expressed disgusting views on the Floyd murder, saying Chauvin did the same thing to a white lady so he isn't necessarily racist, saying the BLM protest was an unnecessary health risk, etc. This friend runs the vegan grocery store, so we can't shop there anymore. I sent him a long letter telling him so, he sent a non-apology, sorry you misunderstand. Its also coming up on father's day. Last year on that day, my sister's partner was in town from Australia, and he made a comment to my wife asking "what's the deal with this trend in black culture where they grind on each other in trees like monkeys?", after which my relationship with my family has been permanently severely damaged... the dehumanization my wife endures living here never ends. So I need to support her leaving. But it's been devastating.

I didn't want to hijack the other ongoing racism threads to tell this story, but I had to share because I'm losing my mind. There's a problem with white culture, it seems.

Interesting you stereotyped your neighbors.

I'm sorry that you're going through all of that, as all of those situations are horrible, and I can't imagine the upheaval in your life. I hope you can find some peace for your wife and for you.