What to do about racism in the real world?

[B-Fly]

Why would/should the worst folks on earth be allowed in society?

Because they're still human.

[Gregg]

What's your course of action in my shoes?

Young Gregg would belittle him with verbal aggression with the intent of winning the single event. Feeling good about himself knowing that he was right and making the bigot look foolish to his own peer group. If needed puff up to make the coward that I know he is back down further make Gregg look good.

Present day Gregg, would say to the man, what happened to you? What happened that hurt you so much and makes you so angry? Then I would listen. Inside I would pray for the right healing words. I would tell him I am so sorry that happened to you. I would ask if he had any Native friends, or was he friends with anyone of color. I would hope he would answer in the affirmative and point out that he does those friends a great injustice when he clumps all people into one category. If he didn't I would gently tell him I have friends of color and it hurts me when people make hate comments to their ethnic group. I would smile, shake his hand and say, see you soon.

[senorsheep]

Generally speaking, I think the first and best remedy is to confront directly to whatever degree makes sense, and then escalate to supervisor, to social media, and lastly to a government agency.

If the racist counter guy had simply told a racist joke, then I would say a stony stare followed by "Does your manager know you tell racist jokes at his sales counter?" would appropriately shut him down, and that could be the end of it. His stupid little prank on the natives is "next level" racist, though, and needs to be addressed.

The move here is to report the incident to the manager and/or owner of the company. They may not know what this guy is doing, and they deserve a chance to address the issue before having their business publicly smeared. Request a follow-up, and if they don't address the problem to your satisfaction, then go the social media shaming route, and/or report them to whatever authority is appropriate.

I had a sticky one happen last year in a purely social situation. I was in a home poker game hosted by a guy I've playing with for years. We had a few last minute drops and needed to fill a couple of seats, so one of our semi-regular attendees brought his uncle in to play. I drew the seat next to him. About an hour into the game, after the uncle had had a few, I heard him very clearly mutter a racist pun to himself under his breath. He chuckled to himself and then looked up at me, and I gave him the stony stare to let him know that I heard what he said, and it wasn't cool. I debated whether to call him out at the table, but decided that would be inappropriate, as a guest in my friend's house. At that point, I just turned my chair away from Uncle Racist and shunned him the rest of the night. There was no more racial muttering from him.

I called the host the next day, told him what happened, explained that I don't socialize with racists, and informed him that if Uncle Racist was invited to any future games, I wouldn't be attending. The host was properly disgusted, and apologized, and Uncle Racist has never been invited back.

[B-Fly]

Good stuff, Gregg and senorsheep.

[baldgriff]

Not sure anyone was talking about censoring him. Maybe censuring, which is very different.

Just using this thread as a means to show why it is important not to censor people - no matter how vile or ignorant the statements. In prior threads, it was my contention that we should let everyone state their opinion and that sunlight is the best disinfectant. If this guy was not allowed to share his opinion, again others would never know what he actually is.

I realize this is primarily a thread about how people choose to react to the ignorance - but without his ability to share it - no one would actually know he held that opinion. Once you know, now you can choose how to react to it.

[Gregg]

Just using this thread as a means to show why it is important not to censor people - no matter how vile or ignorant the statements. In prior threads, it was my contention that we should let everyone state their opinion and that sunlight is the best disinfectant. If this guy was not allowed to share his opinion, again others would never know what he actually is.

I realize this is primarily a thread about how people choose to react to the ignorance - but without his ability to share it - no one would actually know he held that opinion. Once you know, now you can choose how to react to it.

Yep.

The question is what to do about racism in the real world not how do we shut up racists and hide their racism inside themselves.

Actually not hearing it makes it more dangerous.

[heyelander]

Just using this thread as a means to show why it is important not to censor people - no matter how vile or ignorant the statements. In prior threads, it was my contention that we should let everyone state their opinion and that sunlight is the best disinfectant. If this guy was not allowed to share his opinion, again others would never know what he actually is.

I realize this is primarily a thread about how people choose to react to the ignorance - but without his ability to share it - no one would actually know he held that opinion. Once you know, now you can choose how to react to it.

so how does that work in this situation? We let this guy continue to pull this shitty joke, and... what? Now I know he's a dick? Swell, Now I know to go to his work at a different time of day so I don't have to deal with him? I wait for a different teller when I need customer service? How do you disinfect this?

Me: I'd like to speak to the manager...
Manager: Yes?
Me: This guy is being a racist douche and denying services to one of the more disenfranchised populations on the planet because he thinks it's funny...
Manager: Yeah, he is a douche, but we keep letting him do it so that everyone know's he's a douche... problem solved.

[Ken]

Now I know to go to his work at a different time of day so I don't have to deal with him? I wait for a different teller when I need customer service? How do you disinfect this?

Why wouldn't you go to a different tire shop.

[Mithrandir]

so how does that work in this situation? We let this guy continue to pull this shitty joke, and... what? Now I know he's a dick? Swell, Now I know to go to his work at a different time of day so I don't have to deal with him? I wait for a different teller when I need customer service? How do you disinfect this?

Me: I'd like to speak to the manager...
Manager: Yes?
Me: This guy is being a racist douche and denying services to one of the more disenfranchised populations on the planet because he thinks it's funny...
Manager: Yeah, he is a douche, but we keep letting him do it so that everyone know's he's a douche... problem solved.

Agree with Ken. If the manager didn't fire the racist, then go to a different bank. And let them know WHY you are switching banks.

[baldgriff]

so how does that work in this situation? We let this guy continue to pull this shitty joke, and... what? Now I know he's a dick? Swell, Now I know to go to his work at a different time of day so I don't have to deal with him? I wait for a different teller when I need customer service? How do you disinfect this?

Me: I'd like to speak to the manager...
Manager: Yes?
Me: This guy is being a racist douche and denying services to one of the more disenfranchised populations on the planet because he thinks it's funny...
Manager: Yeah, he is a douche, but we keep letting him do it so that everyone know's he's a douche... problem solved.

See now your just being obtuse. There are 2 steps that have to be separated:

1 - Allowing the guy share his ignorance/racism
2 - How we react to the guy being racist.


If we never allow the guy to share his ignorance/racism - you never will get to react.

So as I said sunlight being the best disinfectant, if the guy openly shares with you that he is racist. You have every right to tell the guy something along the lines of "I choose not to do business with racists, upon completion of [insert whatever service is being done] I will be taking my business to the shop down the street." or you could contact the manager of the store and indicate the experience you had. You get to choose how you interact with it.

His manager can then choose how he wants to interact with the employees racism.


If the manager finds out that his employee is disenfranchising and denying service to people he may choose to end the working relationship. If he doesnt know about it, he may never have the chance to understand how that is affecting his business and react how he feels necessary

There are all sorts of ways you can interact/react to the ignorance and racism of that individual.

However, until the point you found out about his issue you gladly went to that shop and supported that business. If the guy is never allowed to share his ignorance - you may never ever find out about it and would continue to go on supporting that business. Now that you know about it - the ball is in your court and you can choose what to do. More sunlight anyone?

[Mithrandir]

Because they're still human.

I don't agree. The worst folks should be eliminated. I'm so god damn sick and tired of the scum of the earth making life torturous for good folks. As James sang, "Kill'em all"!

[Ken]

I don't agree. The worst folks should be eliminated. I'm so god damn sick and tired of the scum of the earth making life torturous for good folks. As James sang, "Kill'em all"!

Are we still talking about racist speech? Not that I'm supporting it in any way, but the penalty doesn't seem to fit the crime?

[Mithrandir]

Are we still talking about racist speech? Not that I'm supporting it in any way, but the penalty doesn't seem to fit the crime?

Sorry. I was referring to the vilest and most disgusting humans..murderers, rapists, violent offenders, etc. nothing to do with hate speech.

[TranaGreg]

...
However, until the point you found out about his issue you gladly went to that shop and supported that business. If the guy is never allowed to share his ignorance - you may never ever find out about it and would continue to go on supporting that business. Now that you know about it - the ball is in your court and you can choose what to do. More sunlight anyone?

This is nice in theory. But reality doesn't work this way.

The fact is that a large majority of people will react by saying "wow, what a dick, I hope I don't get that asshole the next time I come back here". Sure there will be a few enlightened people who choose to change based on principle, but not enough to drive the kind of change that you're talking about. Most people will do today what they did yesterday - marketers know all too well how difficult it is to change a person's behaviour this way.

So your response may be, well, then I guess racism isn't such a big issue after all, if people aren't willing to change their spending habits. That's well and good for the comfortable majority but leaves out a whole lot of people.

[DMT]

This is nice in theory. But reality doesn't work this way.

The fact is that a large majority of people will react by saying "wow, what a dick, I hope I don't get that asshole the next time I come back here". Sure there will be a few enlightened people who choose to change based on principle, but not enough to drive the kind of change that you're talking about. Most people will do today what they did yesterday - marketers know all too well how difficult it is to change a person's behaviour this way.

So your response may be, well, then I guess racism isn't such a big issue after all, if people aren't willing to change their spending habits. That's well and good for the comfortable majority but leaves out a whole lot of people.

Too many Americans worship the market like a deity.