Economic, taxes, and tariffs discussion

[revo]

"The Dopey Playbook" starring Dopey J. Trump -- "The One with the Mexican Tarriffs":
1- self-start a crisis off the cuff on Twitter where none existed
2- key officials and GOPers get caught off guard, timidly fight back against Dopey
2- disregarding the bi-partisan anger, escalate the crisis to Defcon 3 levels through additional Tweets and rhetoric
3- the media reads sanely into the ramifications of the crisis while his backers say that's fake news, and they’re already on-board with the poorly thought out impending catastrophe, not realizing how much it will affect them
4- the entire world braces for the consequences of said poorly thought out crisis
5- backtracks ("solves") on poorly thought out crisis, give self pat on back

[onejayhawk]

Yeah -- for last year only. How about this year? Next year? God forbid another 4 years?

The new tariffs were not in effect last year. That is the looking forward number.

Why are you so gunshy about this stuff? It's like climate change. You made the case it's a real issue and in so doing made the case it isn't something to worry about yet, much less panic.

J

[revo]

The new tariffs were not in effect last year. That is the looking forward number.

Why are you so gunshy about this stuff? It's like climate change. You made the case it's a real issue and in so doing made the case it isn't something to worry about yet, much less panic.

J

As usual, no idea what you're talking about. Are you aware of the damage the "old" tariffs have caused? The new tariffs are disastrous. The tariffs that didn't go into place would've led to a global recession.

It’s well-established in this thread that I believe, like 98% of the non-brainwashed Americans, that tariffs are an unmitigated disaster. What’s the issue?


And a great read for the non-brainwashed on Dopey’s completely ineffective negotiating prowess. The world is on to the Dopey Playbook:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/08/trump-trade-deals-mexico-china-1358155

[onejayhawk]

As usual, no idea what you're talking about. Are you aware of the damage the "old" tariffs have caused? The new tariffs are disastrous. The tariffs that didn't go into place would've led to a global recession.

It’s well-established in this thread that I believe, like 98% of the non-brainwashed Americans, that tariffs are an unmitigated disaster. What’s the issue?


And a great read for the non-brainwashed on Dopey’s completely ineffective negotiating prowess. The world is on to the Dopey Playbook:
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...-china-1358155

Only the brainwashed think they are a disaster. You might manage a majority that think they are unwise, but not even a substantial minority genuinely think they are a disaster. Are you seriously saying that the recently imposed tariffs will cause a global recession or is that Trumplike exaggeration?

J

[revo]

Only the brainwashed think they are a disaster. You might manage a majority that think they are unwise, but not even a substantial minority genuinely think they are a disaster. Are you seriously saying that the recently imposed tariffs will cause a global recession or is that Trumplike exaggeration?

J

Please. Spare me your nonsense. The crap you come up with is right out of the alt-right playbook.

If the Mexican tariffs went into place it would’ve caused a global recession, but it turned out it was all typical Trump theatrics and nonsense.

[frae]

https://thebulwark.com/only-the-best-deals-how-trump-got-pantsed-by-mexico/

"The idea that Donald Trump successfully used the threat of tariffs to force Mexico to agree to an immigration deal is yet another fiction cooked up by the Trump propaganda machine.

The truth is this: Trump squandered any negotiating leverage he may have had by making an idle threat that everybody knew he couldn’t possibly follow through on.

The threat of imposing an immediate 5 percent tariff on Mexican goods, and then gradually ratcheting up the rate to 25 percent, was never real. The stock market hated it. The Chamber of Commerce and other U.S. business groups hated it. American consumers hated it. American manufacturers and farmers hated it. Even Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz hated it.

The prospect of Trump dropping that stink bomb into the U.S. economy in the run-up to a presidential election year was always a non-starter. Not even Trump is that stupid.

And the Mexican government isn’t stupid, either. They fully understood that Trump’s only way out of the box he had put himself in was to find a way, any way, to withdraw his tariff threat by claiming that it had successfully forced Mexico to negotiate an immigration deal favorable to the United States.

But far from creating negotiating leverage, Trump’s threat did the opposite: It immediately handed all of the leverage to Mexico."

[revo]

https://thebulwark.com/only-the-best...sed-by-mexico/

"The idea that Donald Trump successfully used the threat of tariffs to force Mexico to agree to an immigration deal is yet another fiction cooked up by the Trump propaganda machine.

The truth is this: Trump squandered any negotiating leverage he may have had by making an idle threat that everybody knew he couldn’t possibly follow through on.

The threat of imposing an immediate 5 percent tariff on Mexican goods, and then gradually ratcheting up the rate to 25 percent, was never real. The stock market hated it. The Chamber of Commerce and other U.S. business groups hated it. American consumers hated it. American manufacturers and farmers hated it. Even Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz hated it.

The prospect of Trump dropping that stink bomb into the U.S. economy in the run-up to a presidential election year was always a non-starter. Not even Trump is that stupid.

And the Mexican government isn’t stupid, either. They fully understood that Trump’s only way out of the box he had put himself in was to find a way, any way, to withdraw his tariff threat by claiming that it had successfully forced Mexico to negotiate an immigration deal favorable to the United States.

But far from creating negotiating leverage, Trump’s threat did the opposite: It immediately handed all of the leverage to Mexico."

I literally just finished reading this article and came here to post about it.

I can only wonder who might disagree with this. Hmmmmm.......

[Judge Jude]

I'll play (literally) The Devil's Advocate: what did Mexico gain from all this nonsense?

[revo]

I'll play (literally) The Devil's Advocate: what did Mexico gain from all this nonsense?

Seriously? No tariffs. Do you know how integral Mexico is to the supply chain of automobiles?

[Judge Jude]

so they went from no tariffs to no tariffs.

don't shoot the messenger. I have never supported the tariff idea.

but I wonder if "But far from creating negotiating leverage, Trump’s threat did the opposite: It immediately handed all of the leverage to Mexico." is an overbid.

[revo]

so they went from no tariffs to no tariffs.

don't shoot the messenger. I have never supported the tariff idea.

but I wonder if "But far from creating negotiating leverage, Trump’s threat did the opposite: It immediately handed all of the leverage to Mexico." is an overbid.

Why? They knew he couldn't go through with it. I think the author's analysis is spot on.

[Judge Jude]

so Mexico used all this leverage to get...... ?????

or did they have all the leverage, and waste it?

[revo]

so Mexico used all this leverage to get...... ?????

or did they have all the leverage, and waste it?

Not at all. They used this leverage to turn down the "Safe Third Country" agreement, which says any migrant captured at the border would be sent to Mexico to wait out their asylum hearing. That was a MAJOR loss for the US. Could they have embarrassed Trump further? Perhaps. Could they have played hardball and actually see if Trump would be willing to shoot himself in the foot by implementing the tariffs? Perhaps. But maybe Mexico is being the bigger man here, and they get stability from the nonsense that is plaguing American businesses who have to deal with this nutjob.

[onejayhawk]

I literally just finished reading this article and came here to post about it. I can only wonder who might disagree with this. Hmmmmm.......

Any open minded, thinking person. Those in denial will still deny and there are a lot of of Trump deniers.

Seriously? No tariffs. Do you know how integral Mexico is to the supply chain of automobiles?

So you did not even read the article. He said Trump could not afford to go through with it.

Why? They knew he couldn't go through with it. I think the author's analysis is spot on.

That was a very bold assumption, which was left completely bare of justification. Do you want to try defending it now that you have contradicted yourself?

The only point of value so far concerns the safe third country agreement. Even in that, it is better to stop them before they come north.

J

[revo]

Any open minded, thinking person. Those in denial will still deny and there are a lot of of Trump deniers.

Wow. 'nuff said.

So you did not even read the article. He said Trump could not afford to go through with it.

I guess you didn't read the question, which is what MEXICO got out of it, not Trump.

That was a very bold assumption, which was left completely bare of justification. Do you want to try defending it now that you have contradicted yourself?

The only point of value so far concerns the safe third country agreement. Even in that, it is better to stop them before they come north.

I think from now on most of us here should just answer you with one word: "Huh?" That should suffice with most of your responses.