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Thread: Economic, taxes, and tariffs discussion

  1. #551
    Administrator revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernie Brewer View Post
    I know I've become a contrarian pain in the ass, but you just provided a quote from a guy named Binky.
    LOL. He used to be one of the Teletubbies, right? He must be all grown up now!

  2. #552
    "you're naming countless reasons why tariffs are disastrous."

    I don't support this tariff scheme. but the wall-to-wall "will cost each consumer $850 extra per year" or whatever is so ubiquitous in the media and so, well, dopey that I'm pushing back on it. there are lots of problems with the tariffs, but the idea of helpless consumers being forced to continue to buy exactly the same products at exactly the same rate of consumption is ridiculous.

    if you really like movies, and you spend $500 per year for 25 tickets but then the price of a ticket goes from $20 to $100, how many people are going to spend $2,000 on movie tickets the following year? almost everyone would simply attend fewer movies (and almost all of the rest would cut back on other discretionary spending if they are that addicted to movies).
    36th yr in same 12-team NL 5x5
    rallied to within 10 pts out of 3rd at the ASB
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    SP Scherzer 44, Keuchel LD, CSmith 1, Roark 8, Samardzija 1, Mahle, Pivetta 10
    RP Jeffress 1, Dyson
    C Realmuto 13, C Posey 12, 1B Votto 27, 3B TFrazier 2, 13 Belt 10, 2B KMarte LD, SS DeJong LD, 2S BCrawford 9
    OF Harper LD, Eaton LD, CDickerson 17, Dyson 8, Cooper, UT Beaty
    IL: SP Cueto 1, RP TGuerrero, SS EGonzalez 2, OF Bruce LD
    minors: OFs NWilliams 2, Daza, RDavis

  3. #553
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    If tariffs are passed on to the consumer, do higher US government business taxes also get passed onto the consumer? You folks seem to be making a strong argument for lower business taxes in order to save consumers money. I applaud this.

  4. #554
    Administrator revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nots View Post
    If tariffs are passed on to the consumer, do higher US government business taxes also get passed onto the consumer? You folks seem to be making a strong argument for lower business taxes in order to save consumers money. I applaud this.
    I'll say no because of writeoffs. Donald Trump's companies never paid any taxes, correct?


    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Jude
    I don't support this tariff scheme. but the wall-to-wall "will cost each consumer $850 extra per year" or whatever is so ubiquitous in the media and so, well, dopey that I'm pushing back on it. there are lots of problems with the tariffs, but the idea of helpless consumers being forced to continue to buy exactly the same products at exactly the same rate of consumption is ridiculous.
    So according to this logic, consumers should now look to Hyundai or Nissan for their autos, instead of Ford/Chevy/GMC/etc.? After all, these car companies will get walloped with the new Mexican tariffs, but Nissan and Hyundai should emerge unscathed.

  5. #555
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    Government applies tariffs, businesses pass tariffs onto consumers.
    Government raises business tax rate, businesses absorb increases.

  6. #556
    Quote Originally Posted by revo View Post
    So according to this logic, consumers should now look to Hyundai or Nissan for their autos, instead of Ford/Chevy/GMC/etc.? After all, these car companies will get walloped with the new Mexican tariffs, but Nissan and Hyundai should emerge unscathed.
    not many consumers get wrapped up in tariff philosophy. if they are inclined toward one car, but a tariff adds $2K to the price, they're liable to buy something about as good that is tariff-free, or hold off on buying a car, or even buy a nice pre-owned one because the price jump made that wiser option occur to them - in which case they wind up ahead of the game (unless they are aroused by new-car smell).

    what most of them WON'T do is pay an extra $2,000 for the same product. I assume this is not controversial.

    there are other problems with this tariff scheme, as I have mentioned repeatedly. but "consumer forced to spend $850 extra because well, they have to stick with the program" is not one of them.
    36th yr in same 12-team NL 5x5
    rallied to within 10 pts out of 3rd at the ASB
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    SP Scherzer 44, Keuchel LD, CSmith 1, Roark 8, Samardzija 1, Mahle, Pivetta 10
    RP Jeffress 1, Dyson
    C Realmuto 13, C Posey 12, 1B Votto 27, 3B TFrazier 2, 13 Belt 10, 2B KMarte LD, SS DeJong LD, 2S BCrawford 9
    OF Harper LD, Eaton LD, CDickerson 17, Dyson 8, Cooper, UT Beaty
    IL: SP Cueto 1, RP TGuerrero, SS EGonzalez 2, OF Bruce LD
    minors: OFs NWilliams 2, Daza, RDavis

  7. #557

  8. #558
    Administrator revo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judge Jude View Post
    not many consumers get wrapped up in tariff philosophy. if they are inclined toward one car, but a tariff adds $2K to the price, they're liable to buy something about as good that is tariff-free, or hold off on buying a car, or even buy a nice pre-owned one because the price jump made that wiser option occur to them - in which case they wind up ahead of the game (unless they are aroused by new-car smell).

    what most of them WON'T do is pay an extra $2,000 for the same product. I assume this is not controversial.

    there are other problems with this tariff scheme, as I have mentioned repeatedly. but "consumer forced to spend $850 extra because well, they have to stick with the program" is not one of them.
    Hmmmm.....if low cost goods are the goods that come from China, and now those goods will cost more, where will one find similar goods at that same low price? Have you been to a Wal-Mart recently? How bout a Home Depot or Lowe’s? Because JJ, I have to say, you probably haven’t based on your reasoning here.

    And I also think you’re incredibly simplifying how supply chains work. What about cell phones? A family of four may buy 4 new phones every year or two. If they go up 20% as expected, do we all just start buying Korean phones?

    So your answer is we all have to change what we’re doing because of one incredibly dumb individual in the White House? Really?

  9. #559
    1. China does not have a monopoly on all goods.
    2. Consumers can choose to not buy these more expensive goods, due to tariffs.
    3. They can choose to buy less expensive (and possibly lower quality) goods instead, and maybe not even notice the difference.

    Disclaimer: revo is more of a finance expert than I am, and a straight shooter as well.
    and I don't support the Trump tariffs.

    I can't explain why he doesn't quite disagree with my narrow point - and it seems like he is not quite conceding it, either. it's a pimple on... well, let's not go there.
    36th yr in same 12-team NL 5x5
    rallied to within 10 pts out of 3rd at the ASB
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    SP Scherzer 44, Keuchel LD, CSmith 1, Roark 8, Samardzija 1, Mahle, Pivetta 10
    RP Jeffress 1, Dyson
    C Realmuto 13, C Posey 12, 1B Votto 27, 3B TFrazier 2, 13 Belt 10, 2B KMarte LD, SS DeJong LD, 2S BCrawford 9
    OF Harper LD, Eaton LD, CDickerson 17, Dyson 8, Cooper, UT Beaty
    IL: SP Cueto 1, RP TGuerrero, SS EGonzalez 2, OF Bruce LD
    minors: OFs NWilliams 2, Daza, RDavis

  10. #560
    Administrator revo's Avatar
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    What I’m saying is, go take a tour through a Home Depot or Wal-Mart. What you’ll find is that the majority of products there are Made in China, I hate to say. I would guess nearly all of the electronics are imported, and in HD’s case, nearly all of the tools. That’s how they grew, through cheaply made goods that the average consumer could afford. Maybe these producers/suppliers have Korean or Vietnamese factories not targeted by tariffs, but my guess is they don’t.

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