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  • #16
    Originally posted by Riff Raff View Post
    Van Vleet was not included.

    No offense Fly, but if Kawhi is healthy he is a top 5 fantasy guy. Derozan is not. Scoring output about equal, and DeRozan may get a few more assists but apples to apples only a fool would draft DeRozan over Kawhi.

    To the trade, love it for Toronto. You asked why T.O. would do this Fly - simple - to get out of DeRozan's awful contract. Last years playoffs solidified that he is truly a Dino in 2018 - he would fit in perfectly, in the 90s iso league. If Kawhi won't re-sign, he gets dealt in Feb. The Raps then rebuild and pawn off Ibaka's and Lowry's deals in 19/20. If he re-signs, Raps win this hands down.

    Think of it this way: The Raps won what, 59 games w/ DeRozan. Replace him with a vastly superior defender and 3 pt shooter (just more efficient overall) - the Rap's won't suffer at all. Again, assuming he is healthy.
    I wasn't saying that Kawhi and DeMar will be equal to each other, but rather that the change in teams/teammates/systems shouldn't impact either player's game or usage very much. In other words, Toronto Kawhi should be close in value to San Antonio Kawhi, and San Antonio DeMar should be close in value to Toronto DeMar.

    As for VanVleet, since he's a very good scorer at either the 1 or the 2, I think DeMar's departure could result in him getting more usage and increasing his points totals.

    And there's no question in my mind that a healthy and engaged Kawhi is more valuable than a healthy and engaged DeMar. The problem I foresee is that Kawhi is a huge risk to be either unhealthy or unengaged, particularly given the malingering concerns the Spurs had last year and his clear unhappiness about being traded to Toronto. Meanwhile, DeMar record of health, engagement and desire to play with and stay with Toronto was so strong. That's why I think this could be bad for all involved. The Raps may have trouble trading Kawhi in February for anyone of value if he sits out a chunk of the year with a questionable injury status.

    So yes, it's possible it pays off great because of what Kawhi can be, which is one of the top three to five two-way players in the NBA. I just worry a ton about Kawhi's attitude given his reaction to the trade, and if I were a Toronto fan I'd also worry about DeMar's reaction to the trade and apparently heartfelt sense that he was betrayed and deceived, and how that impacts other NBAers' perceptions of the Raptors' franchise going forward.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
      I wasn't saying that Kawhi and DeMar will be equal to each other, but rather that the change in teams/teammates/systems shouldn't impact either player's game or usage very much. In other words, Toronto Kawhi should be close in value to San Antonio Kawhi, and San Antonio DeMar should be close in value to Toronto DeMar.

      As for VanVleet, since he's a very good scorer at either the 1 or the 2, I think DeMar's departure could result in him getting more usage and increasing his points totals.

      And there's no question in my mind that a healthy and engaged Kawhi is more valuable than a healthy and engaged DeMar. The problem I foresee is that Kawhi is a huge risk to be either unhealthy or unengaged, particularly given the malingering concerns the Spurs had last year and his clear unhappiness about being traded to Toronto. Meanwhile, DeMar record of health, engagement and desire to play with and stay with Toronto was so strong. That's why I think this could be bad for all involved. The Raps may have trouble trading Kawhi in February for anyone of value if he sits out a chunk of the year with a questionable injury status.

      So yes, it's possible it pays off great because of what Kawhi can be, which is one of the top three to five two-way players in the NBA. I just worry a ton about Kawhi's attitude given his reaction to the trade, and if I were a Toronto fan I'd also worry about DeMar's reaction to the trade and apparently heartfelt sense that he was betrayed and deceived, and how that impacts other NBAers' perceptions of the Raptors' franchise going forward.

      Cheese Whiz was the general of the second half squad last year. Calm, quiet demeanor on the floor, I think he mostly played point, moving Lowrie to the wing when he was on the floor with Van Vleet. And I was really enjoying the improvement as the season went along for portal but hard to play him ahead of valencunius (who, I hope, plays even more minutes in 2018-19).

      Come on kawhi, give Toronto a chance....

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
        Come on kawhi, give Toronto a chance....
        So far so good.

        Find all the latest Rotoworld fantasy sports news, live coverage, videos, highlights, stats, predictions, and results right here on NBC Sports.

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        • #19
          So far still so good.

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          • #20
            As much as I loathe Toronto it is a world class city with a rabid fan base.

            I bet Kawhi stays.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Riff Raff View Post
              As much as I loathe Toronto it is a world class city with a rabid fan base.

              I bet Kawhi stays.
              stays as in "signs on beyond this season"?

              I love watching my raptors. They won 60 games last year. Replaced a star with a super star. Their young up and comers are a year older. Why is Toronto ranked 3rd in the east??

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                stays as in "signs on beyond this season"?

                I love watching my raptors. They won 60 games last year. Replaced a star with a super star. Their young up and comers are a year older. Why is Toronto ranked 3rd in the east??
                Yeah, I'd probably rank them 2nd. Boston deserves the #1 projection based on their post-season performance and having Kyrie and Hayward healthy to start the season. Philly is "sexier" because of Embiid/Simmons, but I doubt they'll win more games than the Raps.

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                • #23
                  The Valanciunas injury will hurt their great frontcourt matchup flexibility over the next month or so, but boy has this team looked good, stomping the Warriors last night without Kawhi. If he can stay healthy and start playing back-to-backs, Kawhi is a legitimate contender for MVP and Defensive Player of the Year. Meanwhile Ibaka is a candidate for Comeback Player (unless they give that to Kawhi, too, lol) and Siakam for Most Improved Player.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                    The Valanciunas injury will hurt their great frontcourt matchup flexibility over the next month or so, but boy has this team looked good, stomping the Warriors last night without Kawhi. If he can stay healthy and start playing back-to-backs, Kawhi is a legitimate contender for MVP and Defensive Player of the Year. Meanwhile Ibaka is a candidate for Comeback Player (unless they give that to Kawhi, too, lol) and Siakam for Most Improved Player.
                    Yeah it's been a great season so far. This team has a lot of coming together to do yet, but when Lowry and Leonard both get in sync, and they will, well, they'll score a lot of points. And yes, Siakam has been nothing short of a revelation, on both ends. Losing JV will hurt but he'll be back with lots of time to gear up for the playoffs. I am a bit concerned of the effect on Ibaka though, part of why he's so improved is that they can choose his minutes and who he been matched up against - without JV he going to have to go up against some guys he wouldn't normally. Hopefully it doesn't wear him down too much.
                    It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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                    • #25
                      Kawhi gives Raptors fans and NBA fans a moment they'll never ever forget with the Game 7 buzzer beater. As of today, I doubt there's a Raptors fan who regrets the trade. I wonder if a moment like that weighs emotionally in Kawhi's decision to stay or move on after the season.

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                      • #26
                        playing injured, still the best player on the floor

                        as for giannis, I said it in game 4 and I say it again: he looks afraid

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                          Kawhi gives Raptors fans and NBA fans a moment they'll never ever forget with the Game 7 buzzer beater. As of today, I doubt there's a Raptors fan who regrets the trade. I wonder if a moment like that weighs emotionally in Kawhi's decision to stay or move on after the season.
                          hey B. after that moment against Philly, now looking maybe good for the raps to face off against golden state (toronto home court advan), do you think kawni might maybe could perhaps resign in Toronto? He did purchase a big ass house in the most expensive part of Toronto as the season started. He's gotta love the love, you know what I mean?

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                          • #28
                            Kawhi is a force of nature.

                            the non-call on the blatant foul with 16 seconds left (by two guys!) was disgraceful, but the Raptors pretty much had the game in hand anyway. it's just weird, though, when a couple of errors against the Raptors justifiably get fixed, but when it goes the other way, it's tough t**ties.
                            finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                            own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                            won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                            SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                            RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                            C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                            1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                            OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Art Vandelay View Post
                              playing injured, still the best player on the floor

                              as for giannis, I said it in game 4 and I say it again: he looks afraid
                              What the hell was he doing on the bench with a couple minutes left?
                              If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                              - Terence McKenna

                              Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                              How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

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                              • #30
                                What a night. Great great stuff.

                                I really don't know what to expect in the finals ... but I'm pretty sure that there will be some high drama.
                                It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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