#___ingwhileblack

[Ken]

Actuarial models are not the same thing as systemic bias.

Nor did I suggest that they are the same? Why the straw man?

[Ken]

Why is it terrible if I disagree with the argument?

The attack on statistical analysis of two different events because of the difference in their severity was what I labelled as a terrible way to argue. Not disagreeing with the argument .

I understand your point, but using an overall statistical model to discuss risk, while ignoring other statistics that show overwhelming differentials of that same risk to certain subgroups, is a flawed argument.

It seems like you still missed it. Black men and women are dis-proportionally mistreated by cops. That's not in question. Whether that disproportion leads to a point under which police provide them more harm than good in the aggregate is a different discussion.

Now, I'm not saying the neighbor should be condemned for calling the cops, see my posts above. But I'm also not saying that POC should ignore the reality that they are way more likely to be victimized by cops and thus much more hesitant to get them involved. It seems like you are making that argument, but correct me if you're not.

No I did not suggest that they should ignore it entirely. Again, the car accident example - if people in your city are 10x more likely to get in an accident should you ignore that? No, you should keep it in mind. Should you not drive? Well I doubt that's the correct answer. Maybe?

[Sour Masher]

It seems like you still missed it. Black men and women are dis-proportionally mistreated by cops. That's not in question. Whether that disproportion leads to a point under which police provide them more harm than good in the aggregate is a different discussion.

I agree that this should be the question. I guess my point that if I were related to this woman, I might hold some resentment, or if I were this man, I would have guilt, is related to that fact that this came right on the heels of the Botham Jean conviction in the same community. I realize that incident should not logically color one's response to a neighbor having her door open at 2am, because the larger data is more telling about whether one should or should not call the cops in such a situation. However, in the black community, given that trial and the tensions surrounding it at the moment, it still surprises me he called the police. Clearly that is a different case, and he thought calling a non-emergency line for a check up would not lead to this outcome. But because it did, on top of the tensions already there, I'd bet this unfortunately leads to resentment by her family, guilt for him, and a greater reluctance by that community to call police in situations where it is not certain they are needed. It a shame all around, but that is where we are at.

[Ken]

Nosy neighbor with no life, creating drama under the illusion of protecting people. Because like you, it would never occur to this neighbor that involving police is much more likely to escalate violence than to stop it.

Trying to help a neighbor while black apparently gets you this label.

[Ken]

I agree that this should be the question. I guess my point that if I were related to this woman, I might hold some resentment, or if I were this man, I would have guilt, is related to that fact that this came right on the heels of the Botham Jean conviction in the same community. I realize that incident should not logically color one's response to a neighbor having her door open at 2am, because the larger data is more telling about whether one should or should not call the cops in such a situation. However, in the black community, given that trial and the tensions surrounding it at the moment, it still surprises me he called the police. Clearly that is a different case, and he thought calling a non-emergency line for a check up would not lead to this outcome. But because it did, on top of the tensions already there, I'd bet this unfortunately leads to resentment by her family, guilt for him, and a greater reluctance by that community to call police in situations where it is not certain they are needed. It a shame all around, but that is where we are at.

Well put on all points!!

I think it's fair to say that if he had *not* called the cops, due to the perceived risk of police abuse, no one could blame him. But I think it's also fair to say that the opposite is true as well, he could have good experience in the past with the police and made a reasonable choice to call them.

Pretty naive of us to try to say what he should or should not have done.

[B-Fly]

Doesn't sound like a very pleasant existence.

We rarely lock the door before it's time to go to bed and there's always at least 2 windows open at all times (outside of the 3 days in Winter when it gets cold here in So Cal)

It's neither pleasant nor unpleasant. It's just custom and muscle memory. I've always locked the door to my house or apartment, as does almost everyone else I know in the NY Metro Area, because that's our custom, even though we live in statistically very safe neighborhoods.

[GwynnInTheHall]

Since I can't find the police brutally thread.... A white man in San Diego was arrested for beating three women wearing hijabs. When police came to his house to arrest him he met them at the door with a gun and pointed it at them.

He was arrested without incident and is now out on bail

Because of course he was.

If he was a Person of Color.... He'd be dead.

[Gregg]

Since I can't find the police brutally thread.... A white man in San Diego was arrested for beating three women wearing hijabs. When police came to his house to arrest him he met them at the door with a gun and pointed it at them.

He was arrested without incident and is now out on bail

Because of course he was.

If he was a Person of Color.... He'd be dead.

So you are saying that the Police Officers should have shot him to show they have no color bias?

[GwynnInTheHall]

So you are saying that the Police Officers should have shot him to show they have no color bias?

I actually thought someone else was going to post this response, but you'll do.

No That is not what I'm suggesting.

This is a perfect example of systemic bias (though there are many more)

This is white privilege.

This is why they kneel.

[nots]

I actually thought someone else was going to post this response, but you'll do.

No That is not what I'm suggesting.

This is a perfect example of systemic bias (though there are many more)

This is white privilege.

This is why they kneel.

It’s also the perfect example of well trained police effectively doing their jobs

[GwynnInTheHall]

It’s also the perfect example of well trained police effectively doing their jobs

I agree, but we'll never be able to compare well trained VS the contrary if unarmed people of Color keep getting shot for doing nothing while white folks with guns and/or after murderous incidents keep getting taken into custody 'without incident'

Again, not insinuating there should be an incident to balance things out, just that systemic bias and individual officers bigotry need to be dealt with immediately and aggressively.

Edit: Until POC stop being killed by police 2.5 time more often han White folk, this will remain a valid question--was it bad training or Bias?

I do have to give credit to Those in Texas who've put on of their own on trial (convicted of Murder) and have arrested and charged another. This goes a long ways towards making people in uniform who may be biased, departments who may be biased and anyone else in the system who may be biased vs people of color think twice about acting out on those biases. It's harder to do when you know you might actually be charged and convicted.

[Gregg]

It’s also the perfect example of well trained police effectively doing their jobs

I would agree but I have the benefit of hindsight.

In this example were the policemen in uniform? Any adult who points a gun at an officer in uniform should be shot. DO NOT Point guns at policemen!!

This example would have been a tragedy if one of the officers was shot and killed. I am glad that is not the case.

[GwynnInTheHall]

I would agree but I have the benefit of hindsight.

In this example were the policemen in uniform? Any adult who points a gun at an officer in uniform should be shot. DO NOT Point guns at policemen!!

This example would have been a tragedy if one of the officers was shot and killed. I am glad that is not the case.

Not that it makes a difference, but they were uniformed and the guy actually had a silencer on the pistol as well.

[Sour Masher]

The most aggressive officer from this story has been fired, unless he wins an appeal. I think that is appropriate given the video evidence. The whole thing is more evidence for the need for body cams and for the need to train officers about proportionate response. The story here is that this couple's 4 year old was accused of taking a doll from a dollar store without the parents paying for it. Having a bunch of officers surround them, guns aimed, threatening to shoot them, cursing them, telling them they don't care they have children in the car, clearly filled with anger....this is not what law enforcement should be. Temperament is so important for this job. This guy seems totally like the guy who also flies off the handle at his kid for messing up and starts screaming and hitting him over it. Guys like that shouldn't be parents or cops.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/officer-vi..._null_card_hed

[Teenwolf]

Look at how this police officer responds to an 11 year old girl with special needs, for the crime of taking too much milk.

So the cop in this video quit. No charges, no reprimands, nothing in his file to stop him from getting another job as an officer elsewhere. Zero accountability.