"Incels" - misogyny and violence - toxic masculinity - empathy

[cardboardbox]

So you would go to prison and rob your family of being with them? I understand your vitriol, but you would sacrifice your life with your family?

no, he's full of shit as usual.

[chancellor]

im offended by the femme-nazi.. i need a cry closet, a safe space, and participation trophy.
..sorry.. not directed at you B.. just ranting.nothing to see here - Move on - Move On...

Damn, I missed you.

[B-Fly]

A lot of diverse and interesting thoughts, but at least so far it looks like Sour Masher is the only one who has ideas about what we as a society can/should do on the prevention side, although I guess Fresno Bob's tactic of making a public example of a sex offender with brutal violence posted back to the online "incel community" could also be viewed as aiming at a deterrent impact, lol.

I'm curious about whether others agree with Sour Masher's suggestion that the changing nature of pornography (based online rather than magazines/video rentals, allowing people to more easily and without public shame find niche/fetish porn often including extreme violence) is a contributing factor to violence against women. I always wonder about the balance between porn as a potential safety/release valve for people with dangerous/violent perversions such that they can get their rocks off on porn and thus don't have to "do the deed", versus porn as an inspiration/catalyst for violence against (or other degradation of) women.

[Hornsby]

A lot of diverse and interesting thoughts, but at least so far it looks like Sour Masher is the only one who has ideas about what we as a society can/should do on the prevention side, although I guess Fresno Bob's tactic of making a public example of a sex offender with brutal violence posted back to the online "incel community" could also be viewed as aiming at a deterrent impact, lol.

I'm curious about whether others agree with Sour Masher's suggestion that the changing nature of pornography (based online rather than magazines/video rentals, allowing people to more easily and without public shame find niche/fetish porn often including extreme violence) is a contributing factor to violence against women. I always wonder about the balance between porn as a potential safety/release valve for people with dangerous/violent perversions such that they can get their rocks off on porn and thus don't have to "do the deed", versus porn as an inspiration/catalyst for violence against (or other degradation of) women.

I think that porn has little to nothing to do with violence towards women, nor does the easy access have much to do with it. As nully pointed out, this is what men do, and have always done. Since the dawn of time there have been "incels", the man who wasn't chosen to mate with...and they've done violence towards women for millenia. BTW, fuck social media for giving them a platform for their pity party.

[nullnor]

it took me a really long time to figure out. i shed tears about everything, but that one really bothered me. i think when your GF's mother makes you cry in front of both of them, it some how disqualifies you. it's didn't but, they were both good people to me. that was a big moment for her mom, watching thelma and louise. but i wouldn't leave. i felt protective of both of them. i am, of course, a gentleman with women but i wish i could tell them now that i figured it out.

even from an objective perspective it would seem like an easy thing for a man to figure out. but it's not. and then it 20 years later it occurred to me while watching Stalingrad 2013.

[Long John]

What, if anything, do you think we as a society, or we as individual men, can or should do either to help or guide people who may be suffering from feelings of personal and sexual rejection, worthlessness and self-loathing, or to at least minimize the opportunities for it to trigger hate and violence (especially against women)?

I'm doing the only things I should be doing:
-behave in a manner I believe to be appropriate towards all people regardless of race, gender, ethnicity or movie star infatuation
-don't apologize for things you haven't done
-don't pretend to know how anyone else feels
-admit the mistakes you've made in the past without pride; JTFM (just the facts, ma'am)
-move the f- on

This is life. Keep on living it without thinking you're the only person in the world.

[Gregg]

I initially thought about posting this in the Official Sexual Harrassment thread, but I think it's probably a different, if tangentially related topic. After the Toronto van attack, there's been a lot of talk about "Incels" and online misogyny that embraced anti-female rage and inspires or even celebrates anti-female violence. As a nearly all-male online community ourselves, it seems at least worth thinking and talking about. For starters, however, I want to link to a female perspective on "involuntary celibacy", self-loathing and loneliness, to lay down a baseline for thinking about all of this from a place of empathy rather than just hand-wringing about moral decay.

https://splinternews.com/unfuckable-women-dont-go-on-killing-sprees-1825746733

As is too often the case online, I think the title of the article I linked largely misses the spirit and intent of the article, but that is what it is. What, if anything, do you think we as a society, or we as individual men, can or should do either to help or guide people who may be suffering from feelings of personal and sexual rejection, worthlessness and self-loathing, or to at least minimize the opportunities for it to trigger hate and violence (especially against women)?

Hurt people hurt people.

Such a sad article. Sex is not the cure for loneliness. In fact it can actually make the loneliness worse. Sex is great fun and a wonderful way to get really close to someone you love. But it is not the tool to cure loneliness and rejection.

Hurt people often alienate others and wonder why no one is there for them. Hurt people transfer there anger. They interpret every action and word through the prism of their pain then they react out of pain rather than reality.

Male or female do not go hunting for sex as a cure your loneliness. If you are rejected it will make you feel lonely. If you are successful it will give the illusion of working but you will need to go on to the next conquest to feel good. The focus becomes the conquest and is very selfish.

What is the cure? Stop being selfish and focus on others. Forgive what/who hurt you. This does not condone the action or say it is all right. This means not carrying a grudge or wish bad on the ones who hurt you. Find some service work and put your heart into it. When you least expect it, someone will be attracted to your heart, then your body and the anger and loneliness is defeated.

There is no anger or justice that will ever fix this.

[Fresno Bob]

So you would go to prison and rob your family of being with them? I understand your vitriol, but you would sacrifice your life with your family?

I'm not going to get caught, I won't come at it hot, instead I'll be very very cold, and should I be caught, I doubt that any jury will convict me as I'll have strong legal representation going with a temporary insanity defense

[Fresno Bob]

no, he's full of shit as usual.

that makes two of us then

[B-Fly]

I'm not going to get caught, I won't come at it hot, instead I'll be very very cold, and should I be caught, I doubt that any jury will convict me as I'll have strong legal representation going with a temporary insanity defense

LOL. Hopefully the prosecution doesn't find your Sports Bar posts.

[Fresno Bob]

A lot of diverse and interesting thoughts, but at least so far it looks like Sour Masher is the only one who has ideas about what we as a society can/should do on the prevention side, although I guess Fresno Bob's tactic of making a public example of a sex offender with brutal violence posted back to the online "incel community" could also be viewed as aiming at a deterrent impact, lol.

I'm curious about whether others agree with Sour Masher's suggestion that the changing nature of pornography (based online rather than magazines/video rentals, allowing people to more easily and without public shame find niche/fetish porn often including extreme violence) is a contributing factor to violence against women. I always wonder about the balance between porn as a potential safety/release valve for people with dangerous/violent perversions such that they can get their rocks off on porn and thus don't have to "do the deed", versus porn as an inspiration/catalyst for violence against (or other degradation of) women.

the whole point of posting to the incel sites is a deterrent, 99% of these incel fucks are a bunch of betas, and the point of my video would be to fill them with dread and terror around the consequences of their "fantasy delusions"

[Fresno Bob]

LOL. Hopefully the prosecution doesn't find your Sports Bar posts.

fresno bob is a fantasy character representing the manifestation of some of my delusions

[B-Fly]

It would seem the latest high school mass murder may be yet another example of a white male driven to murderous misogynistic rage by female rejection.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/21/teen-killed-in-school-shooting-knew-suspect-would-target-her/

I know the term "toxic masculinity" triggers a lot of folks, but hell apparently hath no fury like a man scorned.

[Sour Masher]

It would seem the latest high school mass murder may be yet another example of a white male driven to murderous misogynistic rage by female rejection.

https://nypost.com/2018/05/21/teen-killed-in-school-shooting-knew-suspect-would-target-her/

I know the term "toxic masculinity" triggers a lot of folks, but hell apparently hath no fury like a man scorned.

Both murders on my campus this semester were committed by spurned men over women as well. One murdered the woman in question, because she was leaving him; the other murdered the new boyfriend to get him out of the way so she would go back to him.

Worldwide, 96% of all murders are committed by men (in the U.S. we've succeeded in getting that number down to around 90%). Nothing toxic to see here!

[B-Fly]

Now there's a proponent of rape, violence, pedophilia and incest running for office in Virginia. Lovely.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/nathan-larson-congressional-candidate-pedophile_us_5b10916de4b0d5e89e1e4824?ncid=edlinkushpmg00000313