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Thread: Leagues looking for owners....

  1. #11
    Big Leaguer The Feral Slasher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    No one wants to negotiate with a used car salesman with a fake sticker price just to play fantasy baseball.
    Maybe these people do https://www.ispot.tv/ad/wEZe/directv...da-reward-card

  2. #12
    Rookie League mhsports's Avatar
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    I dont make a ton like you are all saying. We have been around since 1990 and we do alot of work for the leagues. The owners know that. You cannot knock it. We get serious owners. Not like the ESPN league that get guys and then they dont play after the first week. Sorry but I am proud of MHS and the product that the owners get. Its not everyone's cup of tea. Thank you all for your feedback.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    I dont make a ton like you are all saying.
    OK, then provide some details. Earlier you balked at us quoting the MEGA league so lets take the general league.

    A new owner pays $190 to join a 10 team league. The total return is $850, or an average of $85 per team. Assuming I grab 9 of my buddies and form a league with you, we just handed you $105 each, or $1050 total just to use your league. Over 55% of our money went to your pockets (minus your expenses). Why? When we could use a different service (CBS, Onroto, Fantrax all have various prices and various quality products, but all are viable).

    If your answer is "that's not the real price, I give discounts", then what is your discount? If you want us to take you seriously then be open about it. And if you give these discounts why are you putting an inflated price tag out there, are you hoping to find someone who does not know any better and take advantage of them? Because if so I do have a problem with that too.

    I "run" many leagues every year on a commish level and I have taken $0 off the top... ever.

    I do understand you run a business, and you have to make money, but you are advertising in a place where, to be frank, we know our stuff. So if you you want to sell us something then don't try to pull the wool over our eyes!

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    We have been around since 1990 and we do alot of work for the leagues. The owners know that.
    OK, what service do you provide that we can't get ourselves for free (or at a limited cost of <$150/league in provider costs). And please don't say stats, because we already have those. I understand that you have to pay for them but that's something that is provided by the services we already use.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    You cannot knock it.
    I think that's demonstrably false by this thread

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    We get serious owners. Not like the ESPN league that get guys and then they dont play after the first week.
    I guess if you are comparing to a free yahoo league I understand. But every league I've played in with a reasonable entry fee takes care of that for itself. Paying for entry weeds out the guys who don't care, and if it doesn't they are basically forfeiting their entry and we get a new owner the following year. Not a real problem that the industry needs to solve at this point.

    And to add, I actually have to question the intelligence, at least to some extent, of an owner who is willing to pay a huge vig when there are other options available. So, I'm not sure I buy that you get the top owners, I would be more willing to buy the inverse.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Sorry but I am proud of MHS and the product that the owners get.
    Here's where I'm going to apologize and say you have every right to be proud of your product and I likely come off too harsh. That's not the intent. And to add to it, you have a fantasy sports business which I don't so you have a leg up on me and I'd love to have that kind of business.


    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Its not everyone's cup of tea. Thank you all for your feedback.
    Fair enough - you may see my response and brush me off but I really am interested in the answers to all the questions I posed.
    Last edited by Ken; 01-25-2018 at 07:28 PM.

  4. #14
    Rookie League mhsports's Avatar
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    Ken,

    First off thank you for the questions. We use Onroto so I have to pay the fees to OnRoto. I give discounts for early payments when the season is over, discounts for multi teams owned, Discount for Owners that refer another owner to MHS, Loyal Customers, when there are teams for sale I lower the price. I do not charge for anything else during the season ( trades / Free agents / etc.. ). Also I allow off season trading. Its your team until you want to give it up in a sense. I pay out prize money right after the season is done. Owners had winnings the following week after the season ended. Some guys have had the same team for years and keep restocking the team. I process all trades. Both owners email the trade to me to confirm and it is reviewed and processed. I email the league with the trade. Its a added service that is provided that most owners like to have. I put alot of my time into this and yes it is a business for me. I am very fair and I am always there for the owners. Only a email / text or phone call away. You really have to experience it to understand all that is involved. As I stated earlier it is not everyones cup of tea.
    Another thing is I have a website with all the owners emails / Rules / Phone numbers / rosters etc.. I try to provide as much as possible.

    Regarding putting an Ad for my team here yes I look for the best owners. I owe it to the owners of MHS to find the best owners and I am always trying to improve things. I always welcome feedback from owners. I have had some great feedback and actually did do some of the changes that the owners asked for. I use to play fantasy for many many years and I try to think like the owners of my leagues.

    As far as pulling the wool over your eyes I am sorry but that is by no way the case. We have been around since 1990 and do baseball / basketball / football. Some owners have been with MHS for 20+ years.

    You said you question the MHS owner who pays my fees. They are owners who are serious and don't like the BS leagues. They know what they get and they enjoying playing here. Its like a big family at MHS.

    Thank you for allowing me the time to answer some questions. If you have an other questions please feel free to ask. I am open to it.

    Thank you.
    Edward
    Last edited by mhsports; 01-25-2018 at 09:17 PM.

  5. #15
    All Star fuhrdog's Avatar
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    I must be missing something...most if not all of those things I get free even in my money leagues.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Ken,

    First off thank you for the questions.
    Sure, but unfortunately you did not address all of them. I'll number them this time to make sure we get specific.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    We use Onroto so I have to pay the fees to OnRoto.
    I use onroto, $99 per league. That's 5% of the $1900 league. We need to figure out where the other 50% goes.

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    I give discounts for early payments when the season is over, discounts for multi teams owned, Discount for Owners that refer another owner to MHS, Loyal Customers, when there are teams for sale I lower the price.

    Question #1) I've asked twice previously, but what is the real price? If $190 is the inflated price, what's the real price that I'm going to pay as a new owner who pays on time for 1 team?
    Question #2) Once you answer question #1 I need to ask again, if there is a discounted price, then why even bother advertising the $190 price? I don't think it's appropriate to overcharge new owners just for being new, nor do I think it's appropriate to overcharge owners just because they only have 1 team. So what's the reasoning for charging more than the *discounted* price that you hopefully provide for question 1?


    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    I do not charge for anything else during the season ( trades / Free agents / etc.. ). Also I allow off season trading. Its your team until you want to give it up in a sense. I pay out prize money right after the season is done. Owners had winnings the following week after the season ended. Some guys have had the same team for years and keep restocking the team. I process all trades. Both owners email the trade to me to confirm and it is reviewed and processed. I email the league with the trade. Its a added service that is provided that most owners like to have. I put alot of my time into this and yes it is a business for me. I am very fair and I am always there for the owners. Only a email / text or phone call away. You really have to experience it to understand all that is involved. As I stated earlier it is not everyones cup of tea.
    Another thing is I have a website with all the owners emails / Rules / Phone numbers / rosters etc.. I try to provide as much as possible.
    I guess I'm still missing it. I provide all those things to my leagues.
    I don't charge for anything (including any vig off the top). No charge for trades. No charge for FAAB. I handle offseason trading. I pay out immediately after the season. Onroto emails immediately when trades are processed. I answer all questions. I respond to texts and emails and facebook messages and calls 365 days a year if needed. I put a ton of time into it. Not because its a money making business but because I love it, it's a passion, making sure everyone gets to enjoy it the same way I do. All the emails/rules/rosters/numbers are on the league site.

    So question #3 - what are you providing that those of us who commish on our own for free do not provide? I still haven't see anything?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Regarding putting an Ad for my team here yes I look for the best owners. I owe it to the owners of MHS to find the best owners and I am always trying to improve things. I always welcome feedback from owners. I have had some great feedback and actually did do some of the changes that the owners asked for. I use to play fantasy for many many years and I try to think like the owners of my leagues.
    OK, so think like an owner right here - when you put $ towards a fantasy league don't you want the prize money to be equivalent to the entry fees? A small fee for the onroto service ($99) comes off the top, and I'll even be willing to allow you a "reasonable" commish fee (even though I do it for free), but (basically the same as question #3) why should an owner go with your service rather than a standard league that all of us on this site participate in that doesn't have a large fee?

    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    As far as pulling the wool over your eyes I am sorry but that is by no way the case. We have been around since 1990 and do baseball / basketball / football. Some owners have been with MHS for 20+ years.

    You said you question the MHS owner who pays my fees. They are owners who are serious and don't like the BS leagues. They know what they get and they enjoying playing here. Its like a big family at MHS.
    Not trying to be mean but I have to wonder if they realize what they are giving up by going with your service vs the alternatives out there. You haven't listed anything above that I don't provide for free. Even the same hosting site.


    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Thank you for allowing me the time to answer some questions. If you have an other questions please feel free to ask. I am open to it.

    Thank you.
    Edward
    Thanks for the prompt reply, I do appreciate that.

  7. #17
    Rookie League mhsports's Avatar
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    Ken,

    I forgot to mention MHS has a new owner discount as well.

    Anyway, The answers to these questions will never be the right answer for you and that is fine. Everyone is different. Maybe I should offer you a job at MHS? Let me know if you would like to talk about that.

    MHS has been around a long time so we must be doing something right. Everyone has a choice out there.

    Thank you for your time and questions.
    Last edited by mhsports; 01-25-2018 at 11:40 PM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhsports View Post
    Let me know if you would like to talk about that.
    Email sent

  9. #19
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    I absolutely agree with the board consensus for the most part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    Question #2) Once you answer question #1 I need to ask again, if there is a discounted price, then why even bother advertising the $190 price? I don't think it's appropriate to overcharge new owners just for being new, nor do I think it's appropriate to overcharge owners just because they only have 1 team. So what's the reasoning for charging more than the *discounted* price that you hopefully provide for question 1?
    Having discounts for returning owners or owners of multiple teams is fine. Many sites do something similar. But it's presented as discounts off the team price, and the payout is calculated off the non-discounted rate, and the site can eat the discounts if they want to offer them. Pricing the teams as if everyone qualifies for discounts and calculating the payouts based on that is kind of messed up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ken View Post
    I guess I'm still missing it. I provide all those things to my leagues.
    I don't charge for anything (including any vig off the top). No charge for trades. No charge for FAAB. I handle offseason trading. I pay out immediately after the season. Onroto emails immediately when trades are processed. I answer all questions. I respond to texts and emails and facebook messages and calls 365 days a year if needed. I put a ton of time into it. Not because its a money making business but because I love it, it's a passion, making sure everyone gets to enjoy it the same way I do. All the emails/rules/rosters/numbers are on the league site.

    So question #3 - what are you providing that those of us who commish on our own for free do not provide? I still haven't see anything?
    To be fair, these are all things you do for leagues you're actually in, and it sounds like you do a lot more than some commissioners I've played with. Also, in some way this is like saying "At home I cut all the vegetables, I make the sauce, I cook the meat, I serve the food, why is this restaurant charging me to do it?" I'm not saying that the amount he charges is reasonable but having someone whose job it is to answer questions about the league constitution or whatever does have some nonzero value.

    And there's some value in having a player community. I ended up in my first league through a college friend of mine, most of the rest have come from RJ or similar sites. If you didn't know about those (or the NFBC) (and you somehow knew about this guy, which is kind of a hole in the theory but run with me here) and you wanted to be in a league for a nontrivial amount of money, you might be willing to pay to use a service with some history.

    I agree with the consensus that the price-to-benefit ratio seems way off but I don't think the price should be zero either.
    In the best of times, our days are numbered, anyway. And it would be a crime against Nature for any generation to take the world crisis so solemnly that it put off enjoying those things for which we were presumably designed in the first place, and which the gravest statesmen and the hoarsest politicians hope to make available to all men in the end: I mean the opportunity to do good work, to fall in love, to enjoy friends, to sit under trees, to read, to hit a ball and bounce the baby.

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