NFL teams and the National Anthem...

[Mithrandir]

http://dailysnark.com/nfl-teams-didnt-stand-national-anthem-2009/

[Redbirds Fan]

It is sad to me that so many people talk about the Constitution and our Constitutional rights, but few people know very much about the subject. Over seventy years ago, our Supreme Court held that a person could not be forced to participate in flag salutes or pledges, or other similar expressions of 'patriotism'. The Court stated it thusly:

"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion, or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."

This has been the law of our country for longer than most of us have been alive.

[Gregg]

When I was a young boy one of the cliches was that anyone could grow up to be president. The last two elections have proven that out. This is truly the land of opportunity.

Rich powerful men have created the games we love so much. They are used to having their way. Players make sure your shenanigans do not overshadow your ability to make them money.
Remember when your physical skills decline and you cannot perform to what we the fans expect, we will want you traded, benched, or cut. We will not care what your views are.

[Sour Masher]

When I was a young boy one of the cliches was that anyone could grow up to be president. The last two elections have proven that out. This is truly the land of opportunity.

I disagree that anyone can become president. There is no way that someone as poorly read, inexperienced, and crass as Donald Trump would ever get elected if he wasn't also a celebrity billionaire. Also, until this country proves otherwise, over half the population seems shut out from being president (women), and I highly doubt a Muslim, LBGTQ person, or open atheist would get elected either, and based on how much was made of HRCs alleged illness, I doubt anyone with a significant disability would be elected these days (most folks don't think Roosevelt would have won in an age of tv and internet news).

[DMT]

Yea, that's a very poor cliche considering only white men had been presidents until 2008.

[Gregg]

I disagree that anyone can become president. There is no way that someone as poorly read, inexperienced, and crass as Donald Trump would ever get elected if he wasn't also a celebrity billionaire. Also, until this country proves otherwise, over half the population seems shut out from being president (women), and I highly doubt a Muslim, LBGTQ person, or open atheist would get elected either, and based on how much was made of HRCs alleged illness, I doubt anyone with a significant disability would be elected these days (most folks don't think Roosevelt would have won in an age of tv and internet news).

The fact that Hillary did not win does not mean she did not have the opportunity.

[Gregg]

Yea, that's a very poor cliche considering only white men had been presidents until 2008.

Yes that was my point.

[Sour Masher]

The fact that Hillary did not win does not mean she did not have the opportunity.

That is true, and as many would be quick to point out, she didn't lose, primarily, because she is a woman; she lost, primarily, because she is HRC. Still, I do think her gender was a factor, and until that glass ceiling is broken, it is hard to argue that truly anyone can be president--over half the population has been excluded from the position to this point. Also, the fact that we followed our first black president with Donald Trump and all that he represents indicates we have regressed.

[Gregg]

That is true, and as many would be quick to point out, she didn't lose, primarily, because she is a woman; she lost, primarily, because she is HRC. Still, I do think her gender was a factor, and until that glass ceiling is broken, it is hard to argue that truly anyone can be president--over half the population has been excluded from the position to this point. Also, the fact that we followed our first black president with Donald Trump and all that he represents indicates we have regressed.

I don't think so. If you are on the ballet you have the opportunity. Woman now have the opportunity as it should be.

Donald Trump did not win because of the color of the outgoing president. If he runs again, he will lose. If the Dems could find a great female candidate to run against him we will have our first female president.

[Sour Masher]

Donald Trump did not win because of the color of the outgoing president.

I won't argue that is the only reason he won, but I guess this is where our disconnect is--I do think Trump won, in part, because of the color of the outgoing president. He was able to insight the reactionary fears of a lot of folks who wanted to swing the pendulum back in this country, and he built his current reputation on the national stage in politics on birtherism, directly challenging the legitimacy of our first black president, implying he wasn't "one of us." Here is an article in the Atlantic that makes the case that Trump was elected precisely because of the color of our outgoing president: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/10/the-first-white-president-ta-nehisi-coates/537909/

[DMT]

Clearly there were many factors that led to such an awful human being with zero political experience winning the presidency. I agree that racist backlash to Obama and misogyny were two of those factors.

[Sour Masher]

Clearly there were many factors that led to such an awful human being with zero political experience winning the presidency. I agree that racist backlash to Obama and misogyny were two of those factors.

Yes, both white supremacists and men's right activists railing against the feminization of America, pushed by femi-nazies and allowed by weak-willed cucks, can proudly claim to have one of their own in the White House.

One of the things that fascinates me is where those two groups intersect--there was a great article about a white woman and KKK radio host on this issue (I can't recall where I read it). There has always been elements of male superiority in white superiority movements, so white female racists navigate interesting waters in trying to find their place and voice in these hate groups.

[Gregg]

What are you arguing about again?

Are you saying that a woman did not have the opportunity to be President? That a black man did not have the opportunity to be President. That a loud mouth rich playboy did not have the opportunity to be President?

When I was a boy none of these would have been possible. Now they are all possible and happening or happened. Would it really surprise you if a woman won the Presidency? Not me.

But then again this is a discussion about the NL standing or not during the National Anthem.

[Gregg]

I am kind of disappointed that you did not comment on this as it really gets to the bottom of things concerning standing for the anthem (at least in my opinion and why I wrote it).


Rich powerful men have created the games we love so much. They are used to having their way. Players make sure your shenanigans do not overshadow your ability to make them money.
Remember when your physical skills decline and you cannot perform to what we the fans expect, we will want you traded, benched, or cut. We will not care what your views are.

[TranaGreg]

I am kind of disappointed that you did not comment on this as it really gets to the bottom of things.


Rich powerful men have created the games we love so much. They are used to having their way. Players make sure your shenanigans do not overshadow your ability to make them money.
Remember when your physical skills decline and you cannot perform to what we the fans expect, we will want you traded, benched, or cut. We will not care what your views are.

I'll throw my $0.02 in ... of course you are correct, but this just means that their window to express their views is a small one and if they feel so moved they should act quickly or that window will close. So while they have the spotlight, they have the right - and some would argue the obligation - to express their views.