Originally posted by Sour Masher
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Adrian Beltre 3,000 hits thread
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If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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Originally posted by DMT View PostDon't forget Boggs. And as great as Beltre is (1st ballot HOF), Schmidt still ranks #1 by a decent margin IMO.
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostI don't know enough about Schmidt to argue against him. I like his offensive profile better than Beltre. But doesn't the fact that Beltre was a top 3 defender at the position all time close that gap with Schmidt? How good on D was Schmidt?If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
- Terence McKenna
Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)
How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige
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I saw enough of Schmidt at 3B to be comfortable with him at at No. 1 overall
next man up on 3000 hits? per bb-ref (MLB years, age, total hits)
Miguel Cabrera (16, 35) 2676
Robinson Cano (14, 35) 2460
Nick Markakis (13, 34) 2234
Victor Martinez (16, 39) 2153
Jose Reyes (16, 35) 2137
Joe Mauer (15, 35) 2110
Matt Holliday (15, 38) 2096
Brandon Phillips (17, 37) 2029
Ian Kinsler (13, 36) 1940
Chase Utley (16, 39) 1885
Melky Cabrera (14, 33) 1847
Yadier Molina (15, 35) 1847
Adam Jones (13, 32) 1806
Dustin Pedroia (13, 34) 1803
seems like the majority there are rotting corpsesfinished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostI saw enough of Schmidt at 3B to be comfortable with him at at No. 1 overall
next man up on 3000 hits? per bb-ref (MLB years, age, total hits)
Miguel Cabrera (16, 35) 2676
Robinson Cano (14, 35) 2460
Nick Markakis (13, 34) 2234
Victor Martinez (16, 39) 2153
Jose Reyes (16, 35) 2137
Joe Mauer (15, 35) 2110
Matt Holliday (15, 38) 2096
Brandon Phillips (17, 37) 2029
Ian Kinsler (13, 36) 1940
Chase Utley (16, 39) 1885
Melky Cabrera (14, 33) 1847
Yadier Molina (15, 35) 1847
Adam Jones (13, 32) 1806
Dustin Pedroia (13, 34) 1803
seems like the majority there are rotting corpses
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I like Cano's chances more than Miggy's. Both are probably still .290ish hitters. But, Cano is the better bet to get a few more full seasons of 170+ hits. Miggy is limping toward the finish line and looks like he will be lucky to see half as many at bats as Cano the rest of the way. Both have 5 more years guaranteed on their contracts. For whatever that's worth.
edit: Ditto what Sour Masher said.“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostI don't know enough about Schmidt to argue against him. I like his offensive profile better than Beltre. But doesn't the fact that Beltre was a top 3 defender at the position all time close that gap with Schmidt? How good on D was Schmidt?I'm just here for the baseball.
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What chancellor said. It is only in a discussion of the best that have ever been that Schmidt's glove suffers. The question is where in the 2-5 range will Beltre fall.
In the contest of Beltre's stature, the article below is useful. It compares Ron Santo and Scott Rolen for Rolen's HoF consideration. Beltre is similar but clearly better than both players, particularly Santo who has Wriggley inflated numbers. Note the forgotton man in such discussions--Eddie Mathews. He was nearly Schmidt's equal with the bat and a plus 3B glove. However, he played in Milwaukee next to Henry Aaron.
In one way, Mike Schmidt is the prototypical third baseman: he was a great hitter and provided excellent defense. In another way, though, he isn’t: a prototype is a model on which subsequent…
JAd Astra per Aspera
Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy
GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler
Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues
I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude
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Originally posted by Sour Masher View PostIf you count AROIDs at SS, I think a strong case can be made Beltre is the top 3bman ever. Alex played 12 years at SS and 12 at 3b, so it is a coin flip. But he did play a few more games at SS, and generally, people get counted at their hardest defensive position, if they played half or more of their time there. So, who should be ranked ahead of Beltre at 3b? Schmidt is the only real argument, right? Or is Brett a contender for the top spot too?
Legit curious, cuz I feel like someone in history should be better, because as much as I admire Beltre's game and think he is a first ballot HOFer, I never got the vibe during his career "I am watching the GOAT at 3b, for sure." But I guess that is what he is, right? I got to what the GOAT of 3bmen in my lifetime, in a sport spanning back 150 years. That's cool, if also a little surprising. I mean, at his peak, I felt Scott Rolen was on par with Beltre, so it is weird to think of Beltre as the GOAT.
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Originally posted by TS Garp View PostI think Beltre as the best third baseman ever is a very difficult argument to make. Schmidt, Brett, Boggs, and Mathews all rank comfortably ahead of him.
He's a much better defensive player than any of them. In spite of their collection of Gold Gloves it isn't close. He has more power than Brett or Boggs and both played in parks well suited to their skills. Mathews is dicier. I think that none of them are clearly better though you can make a case for any of them.
JAd Astra per Aspera
Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy
GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler
Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues
I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude
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Santo trivia: in 1973, as his career neared an end, the Cubs tried to trade him to the Angels.
but Ron became the first "10 and 5" player - 10 yrs MLB, 5 yrs same team - to take advantage of this new rule and veto the deal (he then got traded to the White Sox, accepted, had a bad year, and retired).
this became known as - of course - the Santo Clause
#youcanlookitupfinished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84
SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
C Stallings 2, Casali 1
1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1
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Originally posted by Judge Jude View PostSanto trivia: in 1973, as his career neared an end, the Cubs tried to trade him to the Angels.
but Ron became the first "10 and 5" player - 10 yrs MLB, 5 yrs same team - to take advantage of this new rule and veto the deal (he then got traded to the White Sox, accepted, had a bad year, and retired).
this became known as - of course - the Santo Clause
#youcanlookitup“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.”
― Albert Einstein
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