Adrian Beltre 3,000 hits thread

[DMT]

If you count AROIDs at SS, I think a strong case can be made Beltre is the top 3bman ever. Alex played 12 years at SS and 12 at 3b, so it is a coin flip. But he did play a few more games at SS, and generally, people get counted at their hardest defensive position, if they played half or more of their time there. So, who should be ranked ahead of Beltre at 3b? Schmidt is the only real argument, right? Or is Brett a contender for the top spot too?

Legit curious, cuz I feel like someone in history should be better, because as much as I admire Beltre's game and think he is a first ballot HOFer, I never got the vibe during his career "I am watching the GOAT at 3b, for sure." But I guess that is what he is, right? I got to what the GOAT of 3bmen in my lifetime, in a sport spanning back 150 years. That's cool, if also a little surprising. I mean, at his peak, I felt Scott Rolen was on par with Beltre, so it is weird to think of Beltre as the GOAT.

Don't forget Boggs. And as great as Beltre is (1st ballot HOF), Schmidt still ranks #1 by a decent margin IMO.

[Sour Masher]

Don't forget Boggs. And as great as Beltre is (1st ballot HOF), Schmidt still ranks #1 by a decent margin IMO.

I don't know enough about Schmidt to argue against him. I like his offensive profile better than Beltre. But doesn't the fact that Beltre was a top 3 defender at the position all time close that gap with Schmidt? How good on D was Schmidt?

[DMT]

I don't know enough about Schmidt to argue against him. I like his offensive profile better than Beltre. But doesn't the fact that Beltre was a top 3 defender at the position all time close that gap with Schmidt? How good on D was Schmidt?

I didn't see him play in his prime, nor have I looked at advanced metrics, but he won 10 gold gloves so I assume he wasn't a butcher.

[Judge Jude]

I saw enough of Schmidt at 3B to be comfortable with him at at No. 1 overall

next man up on 3000 hits? per bb-ref (MLB years, age, total hits)

Miguel Cabrera (16, 35) 2676
Robinson Cano (14, 35) 2460
Nick Markakis (13, 34) 2234
Victor Martinez (16, 39) 2153
Jose Reyes (16, 35) 2137
Joe Mauer (15, 35) 2110
Matt Holliday (15, 38) 2096
Brandon Phillips (17, 37) 2029
Ian Kinsler (13, 36) 1940
Chase Utley (16, 39) 1885
Melky Cabrera (14, 33) 1847
Yadier Molina (15, 35) 1847
Adam Jones (13, 32) 1806
Dustin Pedroia (13, 34) 1803

seems like the majority there are rotting corpses

[Sour Masher]

I saw enough of Schmidt at 3B to be comfortable with him at at No. 1 overall

next man up on 3000 hits? per bb-ref (MLB years, age, total hits)

Miguel Cabrera (16, 35) 2676
Robinson Cano (14, 35) 2460
Nick Markakis (13, 34) 2234
Victor Martinez (16, 39) 2153
Jose Reyes (16, 35) 2137
Joe Mauer (15, 35) 2110
Matt Holliday (15, 38) 2096
Brandon Phillips (17, 37) 2029
Ian Kinsler (13, 36) 1940
Chase Utley (16, 39) 1885
Melky Cabrera (14, 33) 1847
Yadier Molina (15, 35) 1847
Adam Jones (13, 32) 1806
Dustin Pedroia (13, 34) 1803

seems like the majority there are rotting corpses

Yeah, all in severe decline mode. Still, Miggy and Cano should get there just because of their contracts. They will keep getting trotted out there for years, even if they have to Weekend at Bernie's it. Beyond those two though...it looks like we will have a pretty long lull till the next 3000 hit club entry.

[madducks]

I like Cano's chances more than Miggy's. Both are probably still .290ish hitters. But, Cano is the better bet to get a few more full seasons of 170+ hits. Miggy is limping toward the finish line and looks like he will be lucky to see half as many at bats as Cano the rest of the way. Both have 5 more years guaranteed on their contracts. For whatever that's worth.

edit: Ditto what Sour Masher said.

[chancellor]

I don't know enough about Schmidt to argue against him. I like his offensive profile better than Beltre. But doesn't the fact that Beltre was a top 3 defender at the position all time close that gap with Schmidt? How good on D was Schmidt?

Schmidt was an exceptionally good defensive 3B. The bulk of his GGs earned were legit. I agree with both of DMT's points - Beltre is a legit 1st ballot HOFer, but I'd still hold Schmidt as the GOAT 3B.

[onejayhawk]

What chancellor said. It is only in a discussion of the best that have ever been that Schmidt's glove suffers. The question is where in the 2-5 range will Beltre fall.

In the contest of Beltre's stature, the article below is useful. It compares Ron Santo and Scott Rolen for Rolen's HoF consideration. Beltre is similar but clearly better than both players, particularly Santo who has Wriggley inflated numbers. Note the forgotton man in such discussions--Eddie Mathews. He was nearly Schmidt's equal with the bat and a plus 3B glove. However, he played in Milwaukee next to Henry Aaron.

https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/scott-rolen-ron-santo-and-the-third-base-myth/

J

[TS Garp]

If you count AROIDs at SS, I think a strong case can be made Beltre is the top 3bman ever. Alex played 12 years at SS and 12 at 3b, so it is a coin flip. But he did play a few more games at SS, and generally, people get counted at their hardest defensive position, if they played half or more of their time there. So, who should be ranked ahead of Beltre at 3b? Schmidt is the only real argument, right? Or is Brett a contender for the top spot too?

Legit curious, cuz I feel like someone in history should be better, because as much as I admire Beltre's game and think he is a first ballot HOFer, I never got the vibe during his career "I am watching the GOAT at 3b, for sure." But I guess that is what he is, right? I got to what the GOAT of 3bmen in my lifetime, in a sport spanning back 150 years. That's cool, if also a little surprising. I mean, at his peak, I felt Scott Rolen was on par with Beltre, so it is weird to think of Beltre as the GOAT.

I think Beltre as the best third baseman ever is a very difficult argument to make. Schmidt, Brett, Boggs, and Mathews all rank comfortably ahead of him.

[onejayhawk]

I think Beltre as the best third baseman ever is a very difficult argument to make. Schmidt, Brett, Boggs, and Mathews all rank comfortably ahead of him.

Schmidt I'll give you but none of the others. As I said above, where does he rank 2-5?

He's a much better defensive player than any of them. In spite of their collection of Gold Gloves it isn't close. He has more power than Brett or Boggs and both played in parks well suited to their skills. Mathews is dicier. I think that none of them are clearly better though you can make a case for any of them.

J

[Judge Jude]

Santo trivia: in 1973, as his career neared an end, the Cubs tried to trade him to the Angels.

but Ron became the first "10 and 5" player - 10 yrs MLB, 5 yrs same team - to take advantage of this new rule and veto the deal (he then got traded to the White Sox, accepted, had a bad year, and retired).

this became known as - of course - the Santo Clause

#youcanlookitup

[madducks]

Santo trivia: in 1973, as his career neared an end, the Cubs tried to trade him to the Angels.

but Ron became the first "10 and 5" player - 10 yrs MLB, 5 yrs same team - to take advantage of this new rule and veto the deal (he then got traded to the White Sox, accepted, had a bad year, and retired).

this became known as - of course - the Santo Clause

#youcanlookitup

Never heard that before. That's funny.....Santo Clause lol.