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  • "a simple survey from the people who would actually be paying higher rates, would be pro higher taxes on themselves as these are not 9 to 5ers grinding out higher wages, these are a fortunate handful of people who know they are blessed to be in their position an would welcome paying their share."

    that's just weird. iirc, people already can voluntarily pass as much tax as they like. why do they need a law to mandate it, if they are "pro higher taxes on themselves"?

    "Gee, if only Congress would pass a law to let me pay as much as I want. maybe I'll lobby them or something."
    finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
    own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
    won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

    SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
    RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
    C Stallings 2, Casali 1
    1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
    OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

    Comment


    • I don't think most of the 18K elites making over 10 mil would welcome a 70% tax rate. However, I do think some of those folks would be more likely to accept it if everyone of their peers had to do it too. That is different than expecting them to volunteer to pay extra on their own, when no one else is. As in any arena, uber elites are a competitive bunch. I doubt they'd be happy paying at that high a rate (and personally, anything over a 50% effective tax rate on even the uber rich seems unfair to me--the federal government getting more than a 50/50 split of earned money is my psychological red line in terms of a fair split on the whole social contract we make as a society). However, as long as they keep their relative rankings and prestige among the other elites, I think they'd be less a bit less pissed. Although, I suspect even the few who genuinely are about society and want to use their wealth to help it, rather than donate to charities as a tax write off, probably feel they know how to do that better than the government does.

      ETA: I am continually surprised by how some hard working middle class folks are not angrier at how much and often extremely wealthy folks can game the tax system to pay lower effective ta rates than them. It really is an outrage and unfair. But I've talked to folks who dream of one day being rich enough to game the system and pay lower taxes. It will never happen for them, but they aren't mad about being screwed over by the system, and being much more greatly impacted by taxes than the wealthy.
      Last edited by Sour Masher; 01-09-2019, 12:17 PM.

      Comment


      • oh, I think there should be an adjustment in the tax rate.

        the political AND legitimate explanation should be that by all accounts, the 1 pct or so have gotten virtually all of the economic benefits of the last 20 years. now that the deficit is so high and the money has to come from somewhere, they have to give a portion of their excess benefits back.

        there are times when tax hikes on the rich may have been sought with less justification. but in the current environment, it is inevitable. as more and more Baby Boomers retire with little to no assets. was that really stupid of them in many cases (exempting unavoidable medical and other hardships)? absolutely.

        but here we are. they will demand - and get - more government assistance. guess where the money will come from?
        finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
        own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
        won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

        SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
        RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
        C Stallings 2, Casali 1
        1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
        OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

        Comment


        • jude, you really think i posted that wealthy want to solely single themselves out to pay more taxes? I have previously explained what I think is an easy distinction when someone posted about AOC getting yelled at in a hallway if she would be giving her salary away during shutdown.

          "To decide what she really meant was she, solely, was volunteering to surrender her salary, this freshman who has never drawn a buck, to the exclusion of these politicians who have held office for decades and are multi multi millionaires for doing nothing but voting lock step with their marching orders. She would be for codified legislation that as a body, all of congress should have pay withheld during shutdowns, not that, hey, while I am yelling at you in hall, are in you going to give back your 1st paycheck.

          This reminds me when a number of the US most wealthy billionaires, including Buffett, volunteered that really the super rich should pay more in taxes than they do... When pressed, Mr. Buffett will you be giving more to taxes, Buffett pointed out to the imbecile that is not how taxes work, they are not a pay what you want exercise, that is not what he was putting forth, and that he was stating as a body super rich should pay more. Is this a hard distinction to understand? No, of course not, but this was a Post article, so it is not a newspaper of the news variety, but of the tabloid kind."

          Again, as Buffet has called for higher taxes for the class of uber rich, he is not saying hey, I want to just give more as a singular dude, I am saying as a class it would make sense. https://www.theguardian.com/business...xes-super-rich I think I have point out this distinction enough times that I am either being trolled, or its just so easy to spit out a 1 second effort snark that requires a 10 minute response, it is inevitable that the snark wins at some point.

          I read figure was roughly 2000 individuals who made that 10 mill annual, the 18k number is counting households with some cap gains? In any case, we have generalizations of hollywood elites being liberals, this means its likely they are democrats who would support higher taxes on the uber rich class as a group, not that they want to as an individual give more, thats not how taxes work. In any case, the Trump tax giveaway hyper accelerated wealth in the hands of the mega wealthy and the largest corps who had big stock buybacks in the largest wealth transfer of money from the 99% to the 1%.

          Comment


          • yes, i am sure that chart showing 18k households (not individuals) with AGI of 10mill+ is different than 2k number for individuals, as one is counting LT cap gains which would not be taxed at 70% even with AOC suggestion, the 2k with 10 mill+ income is basically celebrities. In any case, we as a country have gone entirely opposite direction than raising tax on the absurdly well to do you will never meet them handful of 10+ mill annual income peeps but nevertheless have opponents with lots to say in their defense.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by gcstomp View Post
              yes, i am sure that chart showing 18k households (not individuals) with AGI of 10mill+ is different than 2k number for individuals, as one is counting LT cap gains which would not be taxed at 70% even with AOC suggestion, the 2k with 10 mill+ income is basically celebrities. In any case, we as a country have gone entirely opposite direction than raising tax on the absurdly well to do you will never meet them handful of 10+ mill annual income peeps but nevertheless have opponents with lots to say in their defense.
              It’s not a chart saying 18061 filers claimed and AGI of 10M+, it’s the IRS claiming that. Where is your source for the number being only 2000?

              Comment


              • i live in Massachusetts and i don't want to have healthcare anymore. because of the healthcare thing we have i can't do my state taxes on tax slayer unless i can fill out the health care part. but i should always do my state taxes. i am thinking i can lie and use my HC form from the previous year and commit tax fraud, i guess. if i did do you think i'd get caught? i think the penalty for not having health care is $1k and i only pay less than $1.5k for health care a year, but i still don't want it.

                the amount of money i fucking paid for health care my entire life and never used it. and i swear now it seems all doctors want to do is make money. heh. if i got sick i'd rather save the money myself and pay my own way, or if something major happened to me, i'd rather die than go in huge debt.

                does the federal law mandate have any bearing on the state law mandatory health care mandate?..anyone know a good shaman? health care seems like a ripoff. but now that i am 50 yo. it's not a very good idea to quit having it now. doh

                Comment


                • it is an irs chart, not sure why you think there is disagreement there. what i said was that link you posted stated for households, not individuals, and that number includes LT cap gains which would not be taxed at 70% under anyones plan. i believe it was a wsj article i read that few years ago, just a guess, there were about 2000 individuals, not households, again not conflicting with 18 k number, just you see disagreement where there isnt one. we could go this way, fun with numbers i read somewhere "There are 205 people in America who earn more than $50 million a year in wages alone."

                  "Another way to say that: These people are not just in the top 1%, or top 0.1% — they’re in the top 0.000001%." Why does this matter? No clue, just another fun with numbers article posed somewhere. Ah, SS data, not IRS, https://www.marketwatch.com/story/he...ges-2018-10-18

                  We can talk about the 50+ mill club if preferable,though that is mostly guys who name their own compensation via exercised stock options at their own companies, a silly game where they could just as easily give themselves a $1 salary, and exercise next year when they decide to purchase their mega mansion/yacht whatever, its monopoly money. Not sure this matters as losing forest for the trees, its more about a small handful and whether our current system should continue to run ever ballooning debt or the hyper increasing wealth of that handful of people maybe should be taxed at a rate more approximating what was on the books of our country for a half century

                  Comment


                  • Jeff Bezos is really a human possessed by a demon like Dick Clark and Celine Dion. you can see how his eye's act funny and one gets smaller and one get bigger when you take his picture. it's a classic sign of someone that is possessed. heh

                    i think the least we should do is make people possessed by spirits pay extra taxes.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by nullnor View Post
                      Jeff Bezos is really a human possessed by a demon like Dick Clark and Celine Dion. you can see how his eye's act funny and one gets smaller and one get bigger when you take his picture. it's a classic sign of someone that is possessed. heh

                      i think the least we should do is make people possessed by spirits pay extra taxes.
                      Or, we can charge each spirit in the possessed body taxes separately!

                      Comment


                      • gcstomp,

                        anyone who believes that their tax rate is too low, as a moral issue, logically would send the IRS the amount they believe is proper.
                        NOTHING would stop them from also seeking to then have that rate codified so that similarly-wealthy people would pay the same.

                        I don't understand your logic even a little bit. as I said, it makes no sense for anyone to truly believe in something - but not follow through because the federal government isn't forcing them to do so. is there any other issue where you think someone can make a claim of believing in something, but they are forced to the sidelines because they can only do what the federal government tells them? what am I missing?

                        the Ocasio-Cortez one is a completely different story. she doesn't have much money, and we all have to eat.
                        finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                        own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                        won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                        SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                        RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                        C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                        1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                        OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by B-Fly View Post
                          AOC is growing awesomer by the day. Loving both the dance video leaked to embarrass her and her response to it.

                          https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/04/polit...rnd/index.html
                          so did anyone credible actually criticize her for this?
                          if not, what is the 'awesome' part again?
                          and if not, then what are we posting here, really?
                          propaganda?
                          #echochambers
                          finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                          own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                          won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                          SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                          RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                          C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                          1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                          OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                          Comment


                          • i detailed taxes arent voluntary. I posted Warren Buffet post where he explains wealthy would be open to paying more in taxes. I explained best I could over the years this has come up, the mega wealthy understand they are in a fortunate position and would pay more as a class, but no one would individually just give more in taxes as an individual just as a charity. It would have to be law where every other mega wealthy 50 mill a year earner or whatever also has to pay as codified in taxes. I get you dont understand, even a little, and it does not matter what I post, or links I post showing wealthy saying exactly this. I hear that, and it doesnt matter, so would like if rather than you trolling me, we moved beyond. This really does not matter. We are a tax less for mega wealthy time period, a social experiment that tests how much disparity we can have in the 1% vs 99% before there is mass blood.

                            Comment


                            • this is a varied board, but for simplicity, assume we have a board of 1000 people, all single, all earn 100k a year, and pays their taxes. Taxes at 24% bracket, so effective tax about 17%. Now assume this year and next year law is this group only has to be $100. No IRS hiding, this is the deal, you only owe $100. Out of 1000 people, exactly zero will voluntarily give more to IRS as an individual. Next year tax rate goes back to 24% and they all pay the new rate. This is not surprising, right? People are willing to pay their tax today at 24%, they would pay the $100 flat next 2 years with no one just giving more because, and when law goes back to normal, they would willingly pay their taxes again at 24%.

                              Comment


                              • "the mega wealthy understand they are in a fortunate position and would pay more as a class, but no one would individually just give more in taxes as an individual just as a charity. It would have to be law where every other mega wealthy 50 mill a year earner or whatever also has to pay as codified in taxes."

                                why this makes any sense to you, I will leave for the board to decide. and with this, I move on.
                                finished 10th in this 37th yr in 11-team-only NL 5x5
                                own picks 1, 2, 5, 6, 9 in April 2022 1st-rd farmhand draft
                                won in 2017 15 07 05 04 02 93 90 84

                                SP SGray 16, TWalker 10, AWood 10, Price 3, KH Kim 2, Corbin 10
                                RP Bednar 10, Bender 10, Graterol 2
                                C Stallings 2, Casali 1
                                1B Votto 10, 3B ERios 2, 1B Zimmerman 2, 2S Chisholm 5, 2B Hoerner 5, 2B Solano 2, 2B LGarcia 10, SS Gregorius 17
                                OF Cain 14, Bader 1, Daza 1

                                Comment

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