President Donald Trump

[Sour Masher]

So Volker and now Sondland destroy any remaining doubts that Trump is guilty of bribery. Hopefully the public wakes up so pressure on Republican Senators to remove becomes overwhelming.

You'd think that would happen, yet polling suggest some are already losing their interest in moving forward. Support for impeachment is down 2% from 50 to 48 at the moment.

[B-Fly]

So is the GOP playbook to attack Sondland's credibility, to argue that even if he's wholly credible and accurate that it doesn't matter (i.e., it's legitimate conduct of foreign affairs), or just divert to attacking the Bidens, Obama, Clinton, etc.?

[umjewman]

So is the GOP playbook to attack Sondland's credibility, to argue that even if he's wholly credible and accurate that it doesn't matter (i.e., it's legitimate conduct of foreign affairs), or just divert to attacking the Bidens, Obama, Clinton, etc.?

I hardly know Sondland. He was a Never Trumper.

[Sour Masher]

So is the GOP playbook to attack Sondland's credibility, to argue that even if he's wholly credible and accurate that it doesn't matter (i.e., it's legitimate conduct of foreign affairs), or just divert to attacking the Bidens, Obama, Clinton, etc.?

All of the above, and see what has any traction.

[nullnor]

I wonder if there is an impact about Sondland saying Trump only cared about announcing an investigation about Biden and not actually conducting one. that seems to eliminate a defense that there was concern about corruption, and seems to say the reason was about influencing an upcoming election.

[DMT]

I wonder if there is an impact about Sondland saying Trump only cared about announcing an investigation about Biden and not actually conducting one. that seems to eliminate a defense that there was concern about corruption, and seems to say the reason was about influencing an upcoming election.

It absolutely should, but what is abundantly clear is the Republican Senators don't care about the truth, they only care about preserving their power. Only until their jobs are threatened will they suddenly discover their principles and dump him. It's so disgusting.

[nullnor]

I've only watched a little but Schiff and Goldman look pretty on the ball while I saw Nunes and he was saying stuff like the American people don't care because of the TV ratings, lol.. and then asked if Volcker and the other witness had cooked up a drug deal with democrats.

which made no sense. and mostly when I did see republicans they looked sort of shady and were trying to incite conspiracy innuendos. I thought their lawyer looked about as shady and slick as I've ever seen. and I almost didn't under stand when he introduced himself why he mentioned where Volcker lived even though he said he was a fellow from there too. the way people are protesting witnesses, why even say that. anyways everything doesn't seem like a good look for the GOP.

[Teenwolf]

51% support removal in a Fox news poll. Pelosi is moving things along, slower than I prefer, but she's treading a fine line trying to ensure it doesn't come off looking like "another partisan witch hunt". I'd say it's a pretty sound strategy given the fairly significant shifts in public opinion since opening the impeachment inquiry. Don the Con's days are numbered.

6 weeks have passed now, and support for impeachment, according to 538's poll tracker has it up to... 46.3%. Oh wait, that's down 5 pts.... hmm, that can't be right. You guys promised me deliverables!

Now that the first part has gone so well, I can't wait to see the Republicans put Hunter Biden on the stand, to see what Trump was out of line to pursue. That should go much better for the Democrats, right?

Who could have ever guessed this was a mistake from the beginning? Now Pelosi will get to hold up Warren and Sanders in the Senate for this lame duck impeachment process, and interfere with the more important process of the primary election. Pelosi is actively working against the party's electoral interests. If Biden wins the primary partly based on this obstruction of Warren and Sanders campaigning, you'll all be crying when Trump is elected to a 2nd term. Biden told an immigration activist "go vote for Trump" the other day. Trump wants Biden so badly, just like he supported Pelosi's re-election. Pelosi will look to make it happen. It all scares the shit out of me. I hope I'm proven wrong.

[B-Fly]

Teenwolf, I'm kind of shocked that you view the impeachment process/proceedings as good for Biden. I think they have been and will continue to be horrible for Biden. I think all of the cross-accusations and investigations of Joe and Hunter Biden materially hurt Biden's chances of winning both the nomination and the general election, which only benefits Sanders and Warren, as well as other candidates who could pick up voters currently leaning Biden and establishment funding/support currently leaning Biden.

[revo]

Anyone following this bizarre episode between the temporary inhabitant of the White House and the US Navy regarding Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher? Basically, Gallagher was found guilty of war crimes in a court martial but despite being told by the Navy not to intervene, Dopey pardoned him, because, well, someone on Fox & Friends wanted him to. Now, the US Navy is trying to punt Gallagher out of the SEALs despite the pardon, but again, Dopey intervened because of Fox & Friends, and so the Secretary of the Navy was fired because he tried to appease Trump while also continuing to pursue removing Gallagher.

Nothing like causing an internal war with your own armed services by sticking your nose into a fight where it doesn't belong, all because of Fox & Friends. And the GOP supports the military? Hmm.

[Teenwolf]

Teenwolf, I'm kind of shocked that you view the impeachment process/proceedings as good for Biden. I think they have been and will continue to be horrible for Biden. I think all of the cross-accusations and investigations of Joe and Hunter Biden materially hurt Biden's chances of winning both the nomination and the general election, which only benefits Sanders and Warren, as well as other candidates who could pick up voters currently leaning Biden and establishment funding/support currently leaning Biden.

I would have thought impeachment would hurt Biden, but it hasn't so far. With the media and DNC largely pushing the narrative that accusations against the Bidens are an unfounded conspiracy theory, Biden is allowed to push his narrative that Trump is attacking Biden because he fears Biden most. It seems to have been a highly effective defense of Biden's only argument, electability. The only way Biden wins at this point is with strong showings in Iowa and NH. If he gets a 3rd/4th, he's toast. In such a tightly clustered 4-way race, you don't think it will hurt Sanders and Warren in the 2 biggest states, for them to be unable to rally for voters in person, stuck in Washington 6 days a week? Here's an article explaining why it hurts them.

https://www.npr.org/2019/11/06/77618...ntial-campaign

"I can't think of more devastating news if you're running one of these campaigns for president than the news that your candidate is going to be bound to a desk in Washington, day after day, in the run-up to the Iowa caucuses," said David Axelrod, who helped mastermind Barack Obama's 2008 campaign, which began with an upset Iowa victory.

A prolonged absence from the campaign trail is especially harmful in Iowa, a state that cherishes up-close-and-personal campaigning. "You know, it's a tactile kind of event, where people expect to be seen and touched and courted," said Axelrod.

Biden's role in impeachment has been clear for months. His voters don't seem to care, partly because they pay the least attention to the race.

Now, if Biden made it through the primary, it would be a huge issue for Trump to weaponize in the general. The DNC would rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. Warren, they could stomach, as she's more malleable.

[Gregg]

[QUOTE=Teenwolf;353112] The DNC would rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders.

This cannot be right.

The goal is to get Trump out first and then the Repubs second. Otherwise this whole Trump thing has just been another whiny political business as usual.

[DMT]

It's not right, it's TW's far left rantings.

[revo]

The DNC would rather lose with Biden than win with Sanders. Warren, they could stomach, as she's more malleable.

That's patently ridiculous.

[Teenwolf]

Let me re-phrase. The DNC put more effort into sabotaging and attacking their own progressive candidates than they do attacking Republicans. Look at Obama's rebuke of progressivism. It's not hard to see this.