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Thread: President Donald Trump

  1. #6451
    Big Leaguer OaklandA's's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldgriff View Post
    So lets try again. By building the wall what right is he infringing on?
    Aside from the property rights issue, the constitutional problem for Trump is that the President is not allowed to just take money from the government and spend it on whatever he wants. Imagine if Congress had not passed the Affordable Care Act in 2010, and Obama had first shut down the government, then declared a health emergency and said he was going to take the money anyway and implement the ACA.

    In a National Emergency, the President could be allowed to divert unobligated funds from the military budget to "order military construction projects deemed necessary to support armed forces deployed in a national emergency." It's a stretch to claim that there is a national emergency, and it's a stretch to say that the Wall is necessary to support our armed forces. Maybe that's why Trump is reportedly now looking at disaster relief funds instead of military funds.

    By the way, it's unlikely the proposed $5B includes enough to cover all of the property costs. This administration has never shown a detailed budget for the wall - sometimes it's $5B and sometimes it's $25B. And sometimes it's concrete, sometimes it's steel, sometimes it's some fancy transparent material, sometimes it's a wall with solar panels on top, sometimes it's 8 feet high, sometimes it's 30 feet high and 8 feet below the ground. But apparently the price is the same for all of these variations.

  2. #6452
    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandA's View Post
    Aside from the property rights issue, the constitutional problem for Trump is that the President is not allowed to just take money from the government and spend it on whatever he wants. Imagine if Congress had not passed the Affordable Care Act in 2010, and Obama had first shut down the government, then declared a health emergency and said he was going to take the money anyway and implement the ACA.

    In a National Emergency, the President could be allowed to divert unobligated funds from the military budget to "order military construction projects deemed necessary to support armed forces deployed in a national emergency." It's a stretch to claim that there is a national emergency, and it's a stretch to say that the Wall is necessary to support our armed forces. Maybe that's why Trump is reportedly now looking at disaster relief funds instead of military funds.

    By the way, it's unlikely the proposed $5B includes enough to cover all of the property costs. This administration has never shown a detailed budget for the wall - sometimes it's $5B and sometimes it's $25B. And sometimes it's concrete, sometimes it's steel, sometimes it's some fancy transparent material, sometimes it's a wall with solar panels on top, sometimes it's 8 feet high, sometimes it's 30 feet high and 8 feet below the ground. But apparently the price is the same for all of these variations.
    I dont disagree that the President is not allowed to just take and spend the money how he sees fit. Thats a function of separation of powers.

    So let me rephrase to be more exact - what Constitutional power granted to the citizenry would he be infringing on if he got the wall built? He cant just take the land without providing some just compensation - so no 5th Amendment Infringement - because the government can do it (and has multiple times throughout history).
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  3. #6453
    Administrator revo's Avatar
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    Now he wants to use money for Puerto Rico and California for the wall:

    "President Trump has been briefed about using disaster-relief money meant to help storm-soaked Puerto Rico and fire-ravaged California to build his border wall, according to a report.

    If Trump declares a national emergency, he could dip into a $13.9 billion Army Corps of Engineers fund intended for public works, NBC reported.

    Of that money, $2.5 billion is allocated for ongoing recovery from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, and $2.4 billion is set aside to improve infrastructure along the the Yuba River Basin in California.

    Siphoning off money for disaster relief and mitigation will put American lives at risk, a Congressional staffer told the outlet.

    “Hundreds of thousands of people will be at risk if there is a strong or wet winter in these flood areas and the protection projects haven’t been completed,” the staffer said."


    https://nypost.com/2019/01/10/trump-...d-border-wall/

  4. #6454
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    Quote Originally Posted by baldgriff View Post
    So let me rephrase to be more exact - what Constitutional power granted to the citizenry would he be infringing on if he got the wall built? He cant just take the land without providing some just compensation - so no 5th Amendment Infringement - because the government can do it (and has multiple times throughout history).
    The wall itself is not unconstitutional. It is the process that Trump is proposing to get authorization and funding for the wall that is probably unconstitutional (unless Congress passes a bill authorizing it).

  5. #6455
    Quote Originally Posted by OaklandA's View Post
    The wall itself is not unconstitutional. It is the process that Trump is proposing to get authorization and funding for the wall that is probably unconstitutional (unless Congress passes a bill authorizing it).
    They may have. That is part of the argument.

    Certainly, he can order the Corps of Engineers to construct a barrier on any federally owned land. It falls under public works for which $Billions are set aside. Emergency powers acts go back to the 1920s. Calling the impass in negotiations an emergency is not a stretch.

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  6. #6456
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    Quote Originally Posted by onejayhawk View Post
    Calling the impasse in negotiations an emergency is not a stretch.
    No, an impasse in negotiations between Congress and the President is not a national emergency. That happens all the time. He would have to show that there is an emergency at the border than requires the immediate building of a wall. Republicans might go along with it, but everyone knows it's not really an emergency.

  7. #6457
    the idea that a need to build a wall is an "emergency" that means Trump can use other funds to build it is ridiculous.
    then again, so is the entire debate.

    as for eminent domain, Kelo v New London is a fascinating ruling.
    basically a CT town could or could not seize land for mere 'economic development' - not for the usual hospital, highway, etc.
    Kelo is the 'little guy' who tried to stop it.

    the eventual ruling - and who voted which way - well, I won't spoiler alert. worth a read.
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  8. #6458
    Big Leaguer Kevin Seitzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by revo View Post
    Now he wants to use money for Puerto Rico and California for the wall:

    "President Trump has been briefed about using disaster-relief money meant to help storm-soaked Puerto Rico and fire-ravaged California to build his border wall, according to a report.

    If Trump declares a national emergency, he could dip into a $13.9 billion Army Corps of Engineers fund intended for public works, NBC reported.

    Of that money, $2.5 billion is allocated for ongoing recovery from Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico, and $2.4 billion is set aside to improve infrastructure along the the Yuba River Basin in California.

    Siphoning off money for disaster relief and mitigation will put American lives at risk, a Congressional staffer told the outlet.

    “Hundreds of thousands of people will be at risk if there is a strong or wet winter in these flood areas and the protection projects haven’t been completed,” the staffer said."


    https://nypost.com/2019/01/10/trump-...d-border-wall/
    I'm not happy about that idea at all. We are currently trying to get ACE approval for a flood remediation project here in my community related to Hurricane Harvey damage.
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  9. #6459
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Seitzer View Post
    I'm not happy about that idea at all. We are currently trying to get ACE approval for a flood remediation project here in my community related to Hurricane Harvey damage.
    Texas voted Republican, he won't raid that disaster money. Only disaster money from Democrat states, obviously.

  10. #6460
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    Quote Originally Posted by revo View Post
    So now that we're off this stupid back and forth, the point was -- Trump is opening up an enormous can of worms if he uses a National Emergency to circumvent Congress over a half-baked argument. But once he does it, what's to stop the opposing party from doing the same to push through their agenda if there's an unwilling Congress?
    They must have read my post on RJ!


    "As President Donald Trump publicly weighs declaring a national emergency as a way to get his border wall, some Republicans are expressing concern about the precedent such a move could set for future — and Democratic — presidents.

    While declaring a national emergency is within his powers as president, some on the right are sounding alarms that Trump doing so in this circumstance would set the stage for future presidents to do the same. And not over immigration, but instead over issues like climate change, health care, or other Democratic Party priorities if and when a member of that party lands in the White House.

    The Wall Street Journal’s editorial board issued a warning on Thursday, arguing that while the courts could potentially step in on Trump’s emergency declaration, there’s no guarantee that would happen.

    “If Mr. Trump did win in court, a President Elizabeth Warren might take the precedent as a license to circumvent Congress whenever it is political expedient,” the editorial board wrote. “Rising carbon emissions or even income inequality could be declared national emergencies.”

    Even Fox News has cautioned against a national emergency declaration. Fox & Friends host Brian Kilmeade on Thursday said it would “be a disaster in the big picture, and it would show us at being inept and unable to govern around the world.” He added that it would set a “terrible precedent.”
    https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...ocrats-climate

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