President Donald Trump

[revo]

Conspiracy against the United States? Can he get hanged??

[TranaGreg]

You're right, it's a pretty big deal.

I lost a bet with my wife. I said Flynn would be the one, she said Manafort.

you both still could be right.

[Sour Masher]

This seems very bad and very serious for Manafort and Gates, but what are the possible implications of this for Trump and the WH? None yet? I mean, clearly this is a bad look for them, but nothing yet that will get his supporters to look this admin differently, right? I'm sure the spin machine will work hard to marginalize Manafort's role in the campaign, and Trump is already highlighting these charges are related to activities that predate his campaign.

[Hornsby]

This seems very bad and very serious for Manafort and Gates, but what are the possible implications of this for Trump and the WH? None yet? I mean, clearly this is a bad look for them, but nothing yet that will get his supporters to look this admin differently, right? I'm sure the spin machine will work hard to marginalize Manafort's role in the campaign, and Trump is already highlighting these charges are related to activities that predate his campaign.

He was the campaign manager...there'as no way that they can spin it and pretend that he didn't have a significant role, and Trumps ear. A conspiracy charge, as RB said, is a VERY big deal, and doesn't bode well for the future. It'll come down to the old game of "Lets make a Deal"...people are going to be squeezed, and eventually some, if not many, will provide testimony in exchange for leniency.

In fact, George Papadopolous, a former foreign policy advisor to Trump, has already piled guilty to making false statements to the FBI. That was also released this morning...the dominoes are lining up.

[dslaw]

Trump's action plan - blame Hillary, blame all Democrats, blame Hillary again, blame fake news, blame politics in general, blame Hillary. If Manafort does look like he faces prison time, distance Manafort from the election team, blame Hillary, blame media, pardon Manafort. If any blacklash about the pardon comes up, blame Hillary, bring up pardons by Obama and Clinton, blame Hillary.

[Redbirds Fan]

I have to chuckle when Team Trump says Manafort played a minor role in the campaign.

He was the Campaign Manager for the period which included the GOP Convention. He was the guy they got to come in, after they fired Lewandowski, to bring all the delegates into line. Trump went on and on about what a great job he was doing for them. (Of course, it was during this time that Manafort was putting the Ukraine language into the GOP platform.)

I buy most of my clothes at thrift shops (the high end thrift shops, mind you), so I couldn't help but wonder what it would be like to spend $850,000 on wearables. I'm guessing he went with mostly new stuff.

[TranaGreg]

Trump's action plan - blame Hillary, blame all Democrats, blame Hillary again, blame fake news, blame politics in general, blame Hillary. If Manafort does look like he faces prison time, distance Manafort from the election team, blame Hillary, blame media, pardon Manafort. If any blacklash about the pardon comes up, blame Hillary, bring up pardons by Obama and Clinton, blame Hillary.

all of that is geared to influence the court of public opinion ... lawyers & special prosecutors take great pride in working from a different playlist ...

[cardboardbox]

This seems very bad and very serious for Manafort and Gates, but what are the possible implications of this for Trump and the WH? None yet?

nothing. Haters will still hate though...

[revo]

nothing. Haters will still hate though...

Why and how are you so certain? What if his son and son-in-law are next? What if Manafort or this other bozo give up key information against Trump in exchange for leniency?

[Sour Masher]

Trump's action plan - blame Hillary, blame all Democrats, blame Hillary again, blame fake news, blame politics in general, blame Hillary. If Manafort does look like he faces prison time, distance Manafort from the election team, blame Hillary, blame media, pardon Manafort. If any blacklash about the pardon comes up, blame Hillary, bring up pardons by Obama and Clinton, blame Hillary.

I think you got this exactly right. I just hope it doesn't work, and some of his supporters finally start seeing him differently and start peeling off, and his own party starts thinking seriously about impeachment (still seems highly unlikely at this point).

[DMT]

Why and how are you so certain? What if his son and son-in-law are next? What if Manafort or this other bozo give up key information against Trump in exchange for leniency?

Because the RW propaganda machine is very good.

[Sour Masher]

Because the RW propaganda machine is very good.

Yes it is. I hate that it is, and that is seems to work so well with so many, but it is what it is. My hope is that this investigation will lead to a critical mass of evidence so overwhelming that even the propagandists are forced to admit wrongdoing, but I doubt anything can ever make it come to that point. They will continue to deflect, misdirect, lie, marginalize, etc. Even if those indicted bring more down, even Trump himself, unless there is hard evidence, it will be he said, he said, and his supporters will believe and side with Trump. Or if they admit it, they will say whatever HRC is accused of is much worse.

[Redbirds Fan]

nothing. Haters will still hate though...

And prosecutors will prosecute.

I read the Indictment, guys. I've seen a lot of federal indictments, and have defended against a number of them. The problem when you are dealing with the feds is that they usually make sure the have everything locked down before they make a move. In those cases, the indictment reads not so much like a short story, but more like a financial report full of dates, places, facts and figures. That's what we have in Manafort's case. The 12 Counts are mostly financial crimes, and it looks on the surface that they have him nailed.

Keep in mind that Mueller isn't required to put all of his charges into this indictment. It doesn't list any 'political' charges right now, but it can be amended. Why nothing now? Does that mean they don't have anything? Or does it mean they will offer Manafort some slack on the serious financial crimes in return for not filing any other charges if he will tell them everything he knows? I know what I would do if I were the prosecutor on this case.

We have what is potentially a whole new ballgame here. Fake news and stoking the base no longer have the same degree of relevance. Public opinion won't stop a prosecution from proceeding. Screaming about Hillary's emails looks a little silly when former Trump advisors are making plea deals, which one has already done. And even if Trump gets into wholesale pardon mode, he can't protect his people from state law charges, and it may be that some of this activity took place in the State of New York where the AG has little love for and no fear of Trump.

Smart money says that rank-and-file staff should get the hell away from this guy before anyone knows who they are. Leave now, and they can explain that whole in their resume as a year spent backpacking through Europe.

[Sour Masher]

And prosecutors will prosecute.
.....
Smart money says that rank-and-file staff should get the hell away from this guy before anyone knows who they are. Leave now, and they can explain that whole in their resume as a year spent backpacking through Europe.

I guess what I'm most curious about--is there anyway any of these could lead to charges against Trump himself, or would that take more that whatever Manafort could give them? What, hypothetically, could he give them that would be corroborated by evidence beyond his word?

I get that this is the beginning of the dominoes falling around Trump, and it all looks very bad for him and could lead to serious jail time for many around him. But Trump has already made it pretty clear that as long as charges are not directly against him, he doesn't care all that much, and I worry his party and supporters will feel the same. Remember, all he cared about with Comey was that HE wasn't under direct and personal investigation. I fear that anything short of direct evidence implicating Trump in wrong doing won't end our long national nightmare earlier than 2020. I realize hoping that this might play out in a way that got Trump our of office earlier than that was probably a pipe-dream, but it keeps me going. So, I'm wondering if these indictments keep that hope alive, or is it too early to tell?

[Redbirds Fan]

I guess what I'm most curious about--is there anyway any of these could lead to charges against Trump himself, or would that take more that whatever Manafort could give them? What, hypothetically, could he give them that would be corroborated by evidence beyond his word?

I get that this is the beginning of the dominoes falling around Trump, and it all looks very bad for him and could lead to serious jail time for many around him. But Trump has already made it pretty clear that as long as charges are not directly against him, he doesn't care all that much, and I worry his party and supporters will feel the same. Remember, all he cared about with Comey was that HE wasn't under direct and personal investigation. I fear that anything short of direct evidence implicating Trump in wrong doing won't end our long national nightmare earlier than 2020. I realize hoping that this might play out in a way that got Trump our of office earlier than that was probably a pipe-dream, but it keeps me going. So, I'm wondering if these indictments keep that hope alive, or is it too early to tell?

He says he doesn't care about the Manafort charges, although he has been tweeting in a panic about them. Just like he said he didn't care about Comey, although he continues to tweet about him to this very day. Don't watch what he says, watch what he does. He is shaken by this. He knew something was coming. That is why the right wing world has been in a frenzy for the last two weeks attempting to spin up a Clinton/Comey/Obama/Fusion/Uranium scandal. Hannity has been absolutely hysterical.