Shandler's new format - "Rotisserie 500"

[TopChuckie]

Some early concerns I have with the concept:

- It's conceivable an owner could spend his $500 before he even fills his 23-man active roster. You can't restrict an owner to a max bid based on dollars left and slots left to fill like in a normal auction because salaries are already set. You can't say Owner A has 6 slots left and $6 left so he can only draft $1 players because there may not be any or enough active $1 players at the required positions, or maybe there are ONLY if no one else drafts any of them.

- I fear a wide disparity in salaries between drafted players and FAAB players, but at least it wouldn't screw up the league for years as keeper salaries revert to the two year average value system, i.e. a player you win for a $1 FAAB bid in '11 would have a $1 salary in '11, but if you elect to keep him in '12 his salary would be the average of what he earned in '10 & '11.

- I'm not crazy about the elimination of WHIP because, of the 5 stats traditionally used, it is probably the stat most indicative of a pitcher's actual talent, along with K's I guess.

- Shandler argues that his 4x4 system has fewer moving parts, but when you are combining several stats, i.e. RBI & R and S, Holds, & BS, you aren't really reducing the number of moving parts, you're just making a more complex machine. And you're not going to find Runs Produced (R + RBI - HR) or (Saves + Holds - Blown Saves) just listed too many places without having to do the math yourself and you're not going to see it when a player comes to bat on TV. I don't even find Holds to be all that readily available.

[Todd Zola]

I participated in a mock Roto500 draft at the FPAZ in November and will be playing in the "public" league drafting in NYC on April 3.

I'll address

- It's conceivable an owner could spend his $500 before he even fills his 23-man active roster. You can't restrict an owner to a max bid based on dollars left and slots left to fill like in a normal auction because salaries are already set. You can't say Owner A has 6 slots left and $6 left so he can only draft $1 players because there may not be any or enough active $1 players at the required positions, or maybe there are ONLY if no one else drafts any of them.

This is not a concern. The set price list for any given season is comprised of the average of the positive earners. Any negative earner is assigned $1. There will always be ample $1 players (those that appeared in MLB) in the inventory.

The disclaimer here is this assumes a mixed league where the player pool penetration is 37-50%. If you want to do AL or NL only, this could possibly be an issue. However, it is extremely unlikely that one's strategy would be to leave NO money for FAAB, and as the price algorithm is presently derived, you would have to spend an OUTRAGEOUS amount on your 3 bid-ups. I was the participant at the mock (and likely again in NYC) that was as close to outrageous as possible, and there was no way would have come anywhere close to using up the entire $500 during the initial draft.

[BigJonEmpire]

The disclaimer here is this assumes a mixed league where the player pool penetration is 37-50%. If you want to do AL or NL only, this could possibly be an issue. However, it is extremely unlikely that one's strategy would be to leave NO money for FAAB, and as the price algorithm is presently derived, you would have to spend an OUTRAGEOUS amount on your 3 bid-ups. I was the participant at the mock (and likely again in NYC) that was as close to outrageous as possible, and there was no way would have come anywhere close to using up the entire $500 during the initial draft.

Two questions:

1) What were your outrageous bids?

2) If we get enough others are you in?

[Todd Zola]

1) We on;y did a few rounds, and I dropped out on a few players to save time and not make a complete mockery out of the mock as I made my point, but I would bit whatever it takes to get 3 players. They would likely be Felix, Pujols and one other, not sure yet who it would be. Basically, the best hitter, the best pitcher and the best "scarce" non-catcher player. Maybe Tulo, Longoria or Hanley from this year's pool. At the FPAZ mock, I went into the low 100s for Cargo after dropping out at about 110 for Pujols. I picked Cargo not so much as an endorsement to him as mush as I wanted to show that it was not just Pujols I would go nuts for, and I wanted to make sure I made the point before we ended the session. IIRC, it took 70-something to land Felix. And yes, you can indeed read into my choice of Felix over Halladay, Lincecum, etc. Bod was right, just about 5 years too early

2) Sorry, but no. I am spread way too thin as is and have too much non-baseball stuff unsettled right now to commit to anything more.

[wannabegriffey]

Lets organize. I prefer an 'only' but if it had to be both leagues, I would still be in.

I, too, am a rules junkie...very important to have zero loopholes.

[TopChuckie]

Just taking Shandler's list and assuming the #1 pick, this is a realistic lineup based on positional requirements and best available player at #1's pick in each round of a snake draft. There would be some adjustment due to draft dynamics and because I just assumed the 1st, 24th, and 25th for both offensive players and pitchers.

OF Dunn,Adam 25
OF Bay,Jason 20
OF Ellsbury,Jacoby 20
OF Morgan,Nyjer 16
OF Ordonez,Magglio 11
C Napoli,Mike 8
C Soto,Geovany 7
1B Pujols,Albert 52
3B Beltre,Adrian 13
CM Teixeira,Mark 26
2B Phillips,Brandon 16
SS Ramirez,Alexei 11
MI Weeks,Rickie 13
UT Branyan,Russell 9
P Hernandez,Felix 33
P Oswalt,Roy 13
P Wilson,C.J. 13
P O Day,Darren 8
P Zambrano,Carlos 8
P Floyd,Gavin 7
P Ogando,Alexi 7
P Papelbon,Jonathan 10
P Broxton,Jonathan 10

That's a total of $356, so even if you bid $100 for Pujols or Felix, I guess you would not run out of money for your active roster, but it would be possible if you got too ridiculous with your three overbids.

[Todd Zola]

Keep in mind you can, but do not HAVE to acquire reserves in the initial draft/auction.

I am not sure this was the same list we had in November, at minimum, we found some players that were missing and have been added.

I did a similar exercise. but filled in "guys I liked" cheaper than some of more expensive, lesser talented guys. I was also under the influence of a 6-pack of Mike's Hard Cranberry Lemonade.

Based on this list, I would temper my 3 overbids, but I would still likely go heavier than most.

[Todd Zola]

Okay, crunching the data in another fashion...

There will be 276 active spots drafted. If you consider the top 276 players in terms of value and distribute that, you get everyone spending $330. That is in the neighborhood of what TopChuckie came up with and is in line with the fact you get a boost from Albert who gives you a $13 head start on the field.

I then looked at the players 277 and below, and found 48 I would roster in this format. That is 4 per team if everyone thinks the same, which we don't, so let's say that I get 6 or 7 of these. If I save $5 -$10 per player, I am in the neighborhood $50 saved, bringing my total to $280. I am going to want to add in reserves, probably getting me back to the $330-$350 range.

So now the question is of that $150-$170, how much do I want to overbid to secure an upgrade at 1-3 roster spots, and how much do I want to use for free agency.

It is this question that I feel makes this an interesting concept.

[TopChuckie]

Some basics to be decided:

-League Name

The RotoJunkie 500 League
The 500 Club
The Fanalytic 500 League
The Yankees Rule League /kidding
???

-League Type

Mixed
AL-Only
NL-Only

My thoughts here are I personally would prefer mixed because I'm already in two only leagues, and I think the larger player pool will allow for easier handling of the budget. For most of us, I would assume this league will be secondary to our other existing leagues, so while normally I prefer a deeper league, perhaps a slightly more shallow league would be better for this experiment. On the other hand, the fewer high priced players, the harder it would be to spend all your budget.

-Who's In

1. joncarlos
2. TopChuckie
3. wannabegriffey
4. BigJonEmpire
5. mjl
6. mgwiz22?
7. gcstomp
8. SPF?
9. Hammer
10.
11.
12.

If we do mixed league do we want to expand to 15 teams?

-League Website

OnRoto
CBS
Yahoo
Other Free
Other Pay

Again, personally I'd like to try OnRoto just so I can compare it to CBS, but I also see the advantage of a free site for this league.

-Money

If money is involved, I have no interest in being treasurer. Since I assume J is too busy to play, my first thought would be to send all money to him if he's willing. I think we'd all be comfortable with that.

-How/when do we hold the draft?

Since it's almost a snake draft, we could do it via Rotojunkie, but we'd have to get started a lot sooner. I'd prefer to all meet in a chat room somewhere or do it via our league website, if that is possible. Since the draft would have some unique quirks that would probably throw any draft software for a loop.

-Do we use Shandler's List or other?

Some things to consider:

-Do we agree with Shandler's dollar values?
-If we're a keeper league, will Shandler's dollar values be available for free next year?
-If we use a different site's values, could/would their values cause bigger budget issues?

While I think Pujols' value seems a little out of whack relative to the rest of the league, I'm basing that on my traditional 5x5 mentality, and as long as we're confident his values will be free next year, I think we'd be best off sticking with Shandler. Maybe he'll reassure us they'll be available next year.

[wannabegriffey]

I'm in if we get this going with what ever type of setup the peeples want.

[Hammer]

I think I can squeeze this in. Its an interesting concept.

[BigJonEmpire]

-League Name

The RotoJunkie 500 Club

-League Type

Mixed

ditto

-Who's In

1. joncarlos
2. TopChuckie
3. wannabegriffey
4. BigJonEmpire
5. mjl
6. mgwiz22?
7. gcstomp
8. SPF?
9.
10.
11.
12.

If we do mixed league do we want to expand to 15 teams?

-League Website

ESPN

OnRoto is very good. I know this. I like free.

-Money

I trust J if we do that.

-How/when do we hold the draft?

Chat Room

-Do we use Shandler's List or other?

Shandler's because we have them and it is his game.

[joncarlos]

so, is this dead?

[wannabegriffey]

so, is this dead?

I am still up for it if someone is organizing. Can we get a count of those in??

[TopChuckie]

I am still up for it if someone is organizing. Can we get a count of those in??

I'm still in if we get enough.