Official Sexual Harrassment Thread

[revo]

This is becoming the Arab Spring for Sexual Harrassment.

This week: Jeffrey Tambor. Jeremy Piven. Louis CK. Mariah Carey. Guy from Gossip Girl. Matthew Weiner.

[TranaGreg]

Mariah Carey!?!?

Strange times.

[Sour Masher]

It's sad that it is appropriate we have this thread. In fact, it is overdue. It is good this stuff is getting out in the open, but geesh, so many cases are coming to light. It is depressing. As a kid, one of my favorite shows was the Cosby Show. I didn't have a father and didn't come from an affluent, functional home, so the Huxtables was a nice window into what that was supposed to look like. As an adult, one of my favorite comedians has been CK. It is getting so it's pretty hard to escape from reality with entertainment, because so many entertainers are being outed as scumbags.

One area that continues to be immune to backlash from these revelations of abuse and misconduct is the music industry, especially hip-hop/r&b. Chris Brown and R. Kelly, two known abusers are the worst kind have a huge hit collaboration right now. While other careers quickly and utterly fall into oblivion, these guys continue to be unharmed by their actions.

[Sour Masher]

Another aspect I brought up in another thread is that the range of accusations are ever-widening, mudding the waters on this issue, and potentially numbing the public to the many series cases being revealed. I'm certainly not saying anyone coming forward should be silenced or blamed, but it is overwhelming and complicated to be talking, all at once, about such a variety of actions, from groping from wheel-chair bound old ex-presidents to what currently appears (who knows what else will come out?) like a single ill-advised comment from Matt Weiner, to humiliating and devastating forced sexual encounters, assaults, and rapes from former cultural icons.

One can certainly argue that all of these incidents are part of a larger culture that supports and allows them, so they all add insights into the flaws of that culture, and what we must all face to fix things. Still, I'm ambivalent of how the wide range of these incidents are being treated as of a kind, when, in some cases, some acknowledgement of the significant degree of separation in the severity, gravity, or depravity of the acts should be acknowledged, and dealt with differently.

In any event, each shoe that drops just depresses me more about how widespread this sort of thing has been. The powerful in this culture (in most cases, that power is tied to gender, with males assaulting and harassing women with impunity for years or decades) have gotten away with a sickening amount of abuse for far too long. I'm hopeful all this leads to real change.

[Kevin Seitzer]

Roy Moore?

Or does child molestation need its own thread?

[Sour Masher]

Roy Moore?

Or does child molestation need its own thread?

God, I sincerely hope it doesn't come to us needing a whole thread for that.

Everything about the accusations against Moore are appalling. None more so than the distinct possibility that he will stay in the race and win despite them, not only because some will choose not to believe the accusers, but more reprehensible, because far too many won't see it as a big enough deal to warrant not voting party lines.

Some Republicans in his state has gone so far as to defend, justify, and minimize his alleged predatory behavior:

“Take Joseph and Mary. Mary was a teenager and Joseph was an adult carpenter. They became parents of Jesus,” Alabama state auditor Jim Ziegler told the Washington Examiner on Thursday."

Ziegler...said the allegations were “much ado about nothing.”

“There is nothing to see here,” the Alabama official told the Examiner. “The allegations are that a man in his early 30s dated teenage girls. Even the Washington Post report says that he never had sexual intercourse with any of the girls and never attempted sexual intercourse.”

In his comments on the incident, Ziegler focused on the fact that the report said Moore had not had sex with the girl and that the relationship happened decades ago. He also pointed to the fact that Moore’s wife is younger than him and the pair began dating shortly after the incidents detailed in the Post report.

“There’s just nothing immoral or illegal here,” Ziegler added, according to the Examiner. “Maybe just a little bit unusual.”

Conversely, at the national level, McCain called for Moore to immediately step aside, and even Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan have said he should do that, if the allegations are true, so I must applaud them all for taking a stand that should be universally obvious, but seems not to be. It is depressing, but not surprising to me that local Republicans in Alabama feel it acceptable to publicly downplay and defend Moore's actions as "noting immoral or illegal...maybe just a little bit unusual."

[Gregg]

This is becoming the Arab Spring for Sexual Harrassment.

This week: Jeffrey Tambor. Jeremy Piven. Louis CK. Mariah Carey. Guy from Gossip Girl. Matthew Weiner.

Kevin Spacey and Steven Seagal.

[Hornsby]

It all makes me want to vomit, but the casual, hypocritical dismissal of Moore's acts are particularly appalling. Apparently it's OK to molest children if a Senate seat is at stake.

Just so it's clear, his Democratic opponent was the man who successfully prosecuted KKK members for the 1963 Church bombing that killed 4 little girls. The contrast couldn't be clearer...

[Gregg]

It all makes me want to vomit, but the casual, hypocritical dismissal of Moore's acts are particularly appalling. Apparently it's OK to molest children if a Senate seat is at stake.

Just so it's clear, his Democratic opponent was the man who successfully prosecuted KKK members for the 1963 Church bombing that killed 4 little girls. The contrast couldn't be clearer...

Of course it is not ok.

Just to be clear the Democratic opponent has nothing to do with this discussion.

There is plenty of evil to go around for all parties and walks of life.

The first Spacey allegation is involving a 14 year old actor. There is an accusation that Charlie Sheen assaulted 13 year old Cory Haim. Cory's Mom is coming out in defense of Charlie saying it never happened.

The casting couch has long been well known as part of the business. That does not make it right or excuse it.

[Hornsby]

Of course it is not ok.

Just to be clear the Democratic opponent has nothing to do with this discussion.

There is plenty of evil to go around for all parties and walks of life.

The first Spacey allegation is involving a 14 year old actor. There is an accusation that Charlie Sheen assaulted 13 year old Cory Haim. Cory's Mom is coming out in defense of Charlie saying it never happened.

The casting couch has long been well known as part of the business. That does not make it right or excuse it.

Discussions can, and often do, go off into different directions. My point in bringing up Doug Jones was to contrast the hypocrisy of people like Moore. And also people who'll continue to excuse such abhorrent behavior. Nothing more, nothing less...

[Kevin Seitzer]

There is plenty of evil to go around for all parties and walks of life.

This is certainly true. The offenders seem to be no respecter of party. However, what is chilling is that so much of the Republican party and the conservative Christian church is behind excusing this kind of behavior, even once it comes to public light, if it will give them political power. They have sold their souls to the devil and have the gall to call themselves Christians!

Even those who are saying that judgment of Moore's candidacy needs to wait until this is "proven" are disgusting to me. If you read the Washington Post article and saw the copious fact checking and verification that they did, what more proof do you need to see in order to ask him to step aside? And when Moore's response to that is to call his accusers paid political liars? (Certainly, the level of proof to send him to jail for his crime is higher than a well-researched newspaper investigation, but since the statute of limitations has expired, we're not going to reach that level of proof.)

[Gregg]

This is certainly true. The offenders seem to be no respecter of party. However, what is chilling is that so much of the Republican party and the conservative Christian church is behind excusing this kind of behavior, even once it comes to public light, if it will give them political power. They have sold their souls to the devil and have the gall to call themselves Christians!

Even those who are saying that judgment of Moore's candidacy needs to wait until this is "proven" are disgusting to me. If you read the Washington Post article and saw the copious fact checking and verification that they did, what more proof do you need to see in order to ask him to step aside? And when Moore's response to that is to call his accusers paid political liars? (Certainly, the level of proof to send him to jail for his crime is higher than a well-researched newspaper investigation, but since the statute of limitations has expired, we're not going to reach that level of proof.)

Any place there is money and power there is the potential for abuse.

I am not excusing any of it.

Hollywood has long been liberal and Democratic. There has come to light big problems with sexual harassment in the "Hollywood" community both in committing and hiding it. I do not think that it is because they are Democrats has anything to do with their terrible behavior.

Plenty of evil for Dems, Repubs, Atheists, Christians, Jews, etc. to go around. Let's not label a group because of the actions of a few.

I think we as a society have to be careful not to minimize because we like somebody, or jump to conclusions and lynch someone we don't like. I don't like politics, do not know much about Moore. I like movies and particularly Kevin Spacey. I have enjoyed his movies and his interviews. Seems like a great guy and someone I would have wanted to have lunch with (My wife and I play the who would you lunch with game). When the story broke out about him I was hoping it wasn't true. There have been too many reports to deny validity. Makes me a little sad. He is not what I thought he was. He will have to pay the consequences of his behavior. I will have to stop watching his movies (old and new if there are new ones).

This is apparently the tip of the iceberg. It is going to get messy for a lot of people.

[Sour Masher]

Gregg, I agree, there is no denying that this sort of abuse of power and horrid behavior exists across the board. No one is denying that. Horns and KS were not denying that, but pointing out the additional horror that some Republicans and Christians are excusing the behavior--it is fair to label them as a group, because they are the only ones doing that.

The additional concern, aside from the crimes themselves, is that while Hollywood entities have been quick and forceful in distancing themselves from these predators, the Republican party, at least at the local level, and especially, but not only, in this Moore case, has tried to minimize the actions. Shouldn't our politicians be held to at least as high a standard as our entertainers? Isn't it appalling and embarrassing to those who count themselves as Republicans and Christians that some who claim to share those labels defend and dismiss Moore's actions?

Please read the quotes I included above and go to the link. There is no ambiguity in them--local Republicans are rallying around Moore, very clearly saying his actions are no big deal, and NOT IMMORAL. That is appalling. I am very glad to see he has been denounced at the national level, but the fact that he is being supported at the state level, and not only him, but his actions, its stomach churning. I'm hopeful these responses to defend predatory behavior from an adult toward young teens eventually draws the same backlash that Milo got when he defended adult men preying upon young teen boys.

[TranaGreg]

Obviously nobody (okay, very few) are excusing these abhorrent behaviours. What people are looking for tho (both in here & out in the world) is an appropriate response from those from the accused's "clan", whether that be Hollywood insiders, or political party members. The only way things will change is if this kind of behaviour is repudiated fast, strong, and publicly. Those who don't are enablers of the culture that has allowed this kind of behaviour to persist for decades. It seems the entertainment industry is finally coming around in speaking out - hopefully it's a trend.

edit: apparently masher & I had similar thoughts.

[Hornsby]

Gregg, I agree, there is no denying that this sort of abuse of power and horrid behavior exists across the board. No one is denying that. Horns and KS were not denying that, but pointing out the additional horror that some Republicans and Christians are excusing the behavior--it is fair to label them as a group, because they are the only ones doing that.

The additional concern, aside from the crimes themselves, is that while Hollywood entities have been quick and forceful in distancing themselves from these predators, the Republican party, at least at the local level, and especially, but not only, in this Moore case, has tried to minimize the actions. Shouldn't our politicians be held to at least as high a standard as our entertainers? Isn't it appalling and embarrassing to those who count themselves as Republicans and Christians that some who claim to share those labels defend and dismiss Moore's actions?

Please read the quotes I included above and go to the link. There is no ambiguity in them--local Republicans are rallying around Moore, very clearly saying his actions are no big deal, and NOT IMMORAL. That is appalling. I am very glad to see he has been denounced at the national level, but the fact that he is being supported at the state level, and not only him, but his actions, its stomach churning. I'm hopeful these responses to defend predatory behavior from an adult toward young teens eventually draws the same backlash that Milo got when he defended adult men preying upon young teen boys.

Very well said...