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  • New Hampshire 2012

    Originally Posted by nots in the Iowa thread

    Couldn't possibly disagree more--let's remember McCain finished 4th in '08 while Huckabee finished with 38% of the vote in the caucus. It didn't matter in the least in the long run. Santorum has no money (he will get some now) and little organization--the two true hallmarks of failed Presidential bids. He hasn't been vetted much by the national media--read John Baer's piece at philly.com today. Wait until all of those questions pop up. Santorum was the last flavor-of-the-week for the GOP and he peaked at the best possible time, but this one is over.
    PS- I have really, really grown to dislike Newt Gingrich during this cycle--much more than I even thought possible. Nice speech--classy.
    Thought I'd use this to start the new thread.

    I mostly agree with you here. The one caveat is going to be how big a media buy Gingrich can muster for New Hampshire. He's going to go scathingly negative on Romney and started so this morning in what strikes me as a very intelligent way-- attacking Romney-- to conservative New Hampsherites-- as a "Timid Massachusetts Moderate". When I was in New Hampshire in '92 I was struck by how annoyed the locals on the GOP side got when they were lumped in with their larger neighbors from the Bay State; playing to that is an interesting opening salvo from Newt and much better than some broad based, unfocused attack. He'll also benefit tremendously from the Manchester Union Leader endorsement and the insanely negative coverage Romney will be receiving on every page of that paper as a result.

    This leads to a couple of scenarios. Romney, Crossroads and the other Romney organs got a lot of bad mentions in broadcast for the tenor and severity of their attacks in Iowa-- when noted Newt nemesis Joe Scarborough rallies to his side in defense you know the media is noticing and objects. Last night Romney tried to completely ignore Newt & Santorum and went with the fait accompli narrative in focusing on the President rather than his more immediate rivals. If he does that in New Hampshire he could be in for a surprise-- New Hampsherites hate the fait accompli storyline as it takes their "god given right" to tell everyone else who to vote for away from them. Conversely, if Romney meets fire with fire and tries to punch it out with Newt he's going to open himself up to media criticism of his now five week old blisteringly negative campaign.

    If we see open media warfare, Romney and (wait for it...) Jon Huntsman are going to be serious beneficiaries, especially if the negativity suppresses turnout as it may have in Iowa. If Santorum manages to find a win there going into SC, he's a big storyline although still a very unlikely nominee. The important upshot, however, is that he will drag Mitt farther and farther into a right lane that holds nothing good for him-- no matter what he says the conservatives will never buy him as a conservative but his right wing rhetoric will most certainly turn off centrists and indies when it reappears in Obama ads this summer and fall.

    If Gingrich can capitalize on using Romney as a punching bag or (gack) comes off as a sympathetic character due to Romney's negativism, he could do well here. The real wild card from my perspective, though, is Jon Huntsman. He's been in New Hampshire non-stop for over a month now, he fits the New Hampshire storyline perfectly as they could "create" him as a real contender thus appealing to the huge New Hampshire political ego, his religion isn't as much a handicap in New England as it is in the South and Midwest and his politics aren't that far out of line with pragmatic New England Republicans.

    The conventional wisdom says that Romney should take New Hampshire and he absolutely should; that being said there are an awful lot of possibilities for him to blow it. If he loses in New Hampshire to Santorum we'll see the GOP merry-go-round continue to search for new front runners, giving Newt another chance and tremendously energizing Huntsman. If he loses to Huntsman, we have the nominee and an Obama - Huntsman race that starts in February. Really if it's anything less than a Romney-by-five-plus this is going to be a bad ride; Romeny comes into this like Green Bay going into Minnesota-- he has little to gain from the expected win but everything to lose.
    "There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "

    Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry

  • #2
    I think Mitt has to win NH or it could actually be over for him.
    “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
    -Ralph Waldo Emerson

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    • #3
      I certainly hope its Huntsman but I think its beyond unlikely.
      Romney has the cash and the organization to keep getting a good number of delegates in every state. As the field narrows, his %'s will go up. Everyone else has severe cash and organizational issues--just can't see how he loses unless he fumbles big time. I don't see him as a fumbler.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Wonderboy View Post
        I think Mitt has to win NH or it could actually be over for him.
        Nate Silver writes that Mitt Romney has a 93% chance to win NH. Doesn't mean he will, given Bob's correct caveats above, but it is certainly the way to bet right now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by nots View Post
          As the field narrows, his %'s will go up.
          I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. As the field narrows, his worry should be that his % stays about the same while the 40-50% anti-Mitt vote coalesces around one candidate. If that happens...

          Originally posted by nots View Post
          Nate Silver writes that Mitt Romney has a 93% chance to win NH. Doesn't mean he will, given Bob's correct caveats above, but it is certainly the way to bet right now.
          There's winning and then there's winning. Mitt won Iowa but I don't think anyone was much impressed. If he wins NH by just 1-2%, then this thing is wide open. I'm not sure it means NH is a must-win for Mitt, but I think it's damn close to that if not.
          “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
          -Ralph Waldo Emerson

          Comment


          • #6
            CNN reporting Bachmann dropping out.
            No surprise really. I admit to not thinking very much of her a year ago, but I thought she handled herself fairly well at the debates I watched. Not as crazy as I thought.
            Fair thee well.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by nots View Post
              Nate Silver writes that Mitt Romney has a 93% chance to win NH. Doesn't mean he will, given Bob's correct caveats above, but it is certainly the way to bet right now.
              I would agree with that. Romney should win, but the paths to him dropping the ball have become somewhat more prominent in light of last night's result.
              "There is involved in this struggle the question whether your children and my children shall enjoy the privileges we have enjoyed. I say this in order to impress upon you, if you are not already so impressed, that no small matter should divert us from our great purpose. "

              Abraham Lincoln, from his Address to the Ohio One Hundred Sixty Fourth Volunteer Infantry

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Wonderboy View Post
                I'm going to respectfully disagree with this. As the field narrows, his worry should be that his % stays about the same while the 40-50% anti-Mitt vote coalesces around one candidate. If that happens...

                There's winning and then there's winning. Mitt won Iowa but I don't think anyone was much impressed. If he wins NH by just 1-2%, then this thing is wide open. I'm not sure it means NH is a must-win for Mitt, but I think it's damn close to that if not.
                Why not? Iowa was a huge potential trap. The anyone but Romney forces are in their stronghold. For a Morman to win Iowa is very impressive.

                Winning New Hampshire will not impress anyone, but winning Iowa should impress everyone.

                J
                Ad Astra per Aspera

                Oh. In that case, never mind. - Wonderboy

                GITH fails logic 101. - bryanbutler

                Bah...OJH caught me. - Pogues

                I don't know if you guys are being willfully ignorant, but... - Judge Jude

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                • #9
                  Romney did fine considering it's not a state he has much in common with culturally or philosophically. New Hampshire is a much better indicator for him.
                  Originally posted by Kevin Seitzer
                  We pinch ran for Altuve specifically to screw over Mith's fantasy team.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nots View Post
                    CNN reporting Bachmann dropping out.
                    No surprise really. I admit to not thinking very much of her a year ago, but I thought she handled herself fairly well at the debates I watched. Not as crazy as I thought.
                    Fair thee well.
                    She couldn't even win her hometown, ouch.
                    If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                    - Terence McKenna

                    Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                    How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by onejayhawk View Post
                      Why not? Iowa was a huge potential trap. The anyone but Romney forces are in their stronghold. For a Morman to win Iowa is very impressive.

                      Winning New Hampshire will not impress anyone, but winning Iowa should impress everyone.

                      J
                      They guy who is the acknowledged front-runner with a ton of money and organization beats a guy driving around in an SUV by himself by 8 votes, and that's impressive? And 75% of the vote went to other candidates? Let's just say you are more easily impressed than me.

                      I'm glad to give him props for winning at all, especially considering his religion. He overcame some real obstacles to win. But it wasn't an impressive win.
                      “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
                      -Ralph Waldo Emerson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by onejayhawk View Post
                        Why not? Iowa was a huge potential trap. The anyone but Romney forces are in their stronghold. For a Morman to win Iowa is very impressive.

                        Winning New Hampshire will not impress anyone, but winning Iowa should impress everyone.

                        J
                        this.

                        Romney was never supposed to be very competitive in Iowa but about a month ago he decided to show up and campaign there. One month later he wins.
                        "The Times found no pattern of sexual misconduct by Mr. Biden, beyond the hugs, kisses and touching that women previously said made them uncomfortable." -NY Times

                        "For a woman to come forward in the glaring lights of focus, nationally, you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence of what she’s talking about is real, whether or not she forgets facts" - Joe Biden

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by cardboardbox View Post
                          this.

                          Romney was never supposed to be very competitive in Iowa but about a month ago he decided to show up and campaign there. One month later he wins.
                          And all he had to do in order to do that was outspend Santorum 100-1. And apparently, 100-1 isn't hyperbole.

                          Santorum spent $1.65 per vote while Romney spent $113.07 per vote. So Romney outspent Santorum by a margin of nearly 100-to-1 and yet finished on top by only eight votes.
                          No blogger working today uses the exclamation mark quite like Shawn Macomber. Hope you’re sticking around all night, Shawn. I’m thinking: lots of balloons to pop with those things.


                          Again, if you guys think this is impressive, you use a different definition than I do. Outspending your opponent 100-1 and then beating him by 8 votes is better than losing by 8 votes, but it's not impressve to me.
                          “Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.”
                          -Ralph Waldo Emerson

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            McCain got 13% in Iowa last time.
                            The Iowa caucus eliminates rather than crowns. Romney clearly outperformed what people thought he would do a month ago. Given his money it isn't all that surprising, but spinning this as anything other than a great result for him doesn't make much sense.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I don't know about "impressive", but I think Romney got exactly what he needed out of Iowa and I have very little doubt that he'll be the GOP nominee. Santorum may be this year's Huckabee, in that he'll be the primary protest vote for social conservatives and the last guy to drop before Romney grabs the "prospective nominee" crown, but I think most of the GOP primary voters will coalesce around Romney relatively early in this process as the guy we don't really like but who seems to have the best shot of taking out Obama. Basically, the GOP's version of John Kerry.

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