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Desperation and Sacrifice

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  • Desperation and Sacrifice

    Now that we're on course for little or no change in the way the poor and destitute are treated in this country. It's time for a reality check.

    There are desperate people amongst us, some visible and obvious and other who lurk beneath a surface of stability and calm. The ones we can see are already street bound, signs at the stop lights and off ramps, pushing carts, asking for anything, food, money, booze... they ar in your face and easy to avoid. Others aren't so perceptible. They live in cars, trying to get jobs, food, health care, etc, but the system is stacked against them


    You can't get assistance unless you have a permanent address, which they do not have. You can't get mail, which EVERY public assistance starts out by MAILING documents. and should you find an online outsource--you have to find a library or work center where you #1 have to be able to get to and #2 be able to get BACK to for responses.

    Those of you who have chosen the status quo over real change, change that might cost you a bit, but might save others a life changing choice are ALL to blame for what comes next.

    IF you force someone who has to chose between eating or feeding their family and taking the means from you to do so, they will choose themselves and their family as you have done.

    What I'm saying is--If you, because of your reluctance to change the way we treat our poor are robber, burgled or scammed out of what is rightfully yours. You are responsible.

    Sure breaking the law is unethical, but so is being selfish and putting your comfort over the survival of others.

    If Dipshit in charge gets 4 more years, you're going to see more and more people doing desperate things to survive and KNOW if you didn't do everything you could to help them do so, their bad choices are a direct response to your inaction.

    If you think this is just more of GITH's drag you out of your SUV shit, well no, not exactly. I don't think they SHOULD drag you out, but if they actually do it--you've earned it.

    It's just fucking sad to watch a majority of self proclaimed enlightened folks ignore the path the DNC and the System in general has led you lemming down because--well it's all about you and yours.


    I don't give a shit about how hard you've worked or how much you've sacrificed--if others have less--you should advocate for--help them.

    And you should ABSOLUTLY support any platform that requires those who can blow 500 MILLION fucking dollars to do so.


    I'm just going to sit here and hope that asteroid hits the earth before I can be disappointed anymore in humankind.
    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
    Martin Luther King, Jr.

  • #2
    Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
    Now that we're on course for little or no change in the way the poor and destitute are treated in this country. It's time for a reality check.

    There are desperate people amongst us, some visible and obvious and other who lurk beneath a surface of stability and calm. The ones we can see are already street bound, signs at the stop lights and off ramps, pushing carts, asking for anything, food, money, booze... they ar in your face and easy to avoid. Others aren't so perceptible. They live in cars, trying to get jobs, food, health care, etc, but the system is stacked against them


    You can't get assistance unless you have a permanent address, which they do not have. You can't get mail, which EVERY public assistance starts out by MAILING documents. and should you find an online outsource--you have to find a library or work center where you #1 have to be able to get to and #2 be able to get BACK to for responses.

    Those of you who have chosen the status quo over real change, change that might cost you a bit, but might save others a life changing choice are ALL to blame for what comes next.

    IF you force someone who has to chose between eating or feeding their family and taking the means from you to do so, they will choose themselves and their family as you have done.

    What I'm saying is--If you, because of your reluctance to change the way we treat our poor are robber, burgled or scammed out of what is rightfully yours. You are responsible.

    Sure breaking the law is unethical, but so is being selfish and putting your comfort over the survival of others.

    If Dipshit in charge gets 4 more years, you're going to see more and more people doing desperate things to survive and KNOW if you didn't do everything you could to help them do so, their bad choices are a direct response to your inaction.

    If you think this is just more of GITH's drag you out of your SUV shit, well no, not exactly. I don't think they SHOULD drag you out, but if they actually do it--you've earned it.

    It's just fucking sad to watch a majority of self proclaimed enlightened folks ignore the path the DNC and the System in general has led you lemming down because--well it's all about you and yours.


    I don't give a shit about how hard you've worked or how much you've sacrificed--if others have less--you should advocate for--help them.

    And you should ABSOLUTLY support any platform that requires those who can blow 500 MILLION fucking dollars to do so.


    I'm just going to sit here and hope that asteroid hits the earth before I can be disappointed anymore in humankind.
    You make some good points here, but also a lot of just angry rants that make no sense.

    Do you consider yourself one of the rich? Do you think if someone breaks into your house to take your stuff to get food you are at fault?

    Do you think if someone breaks into your house they are most likely there to get something to sell for food or their drug habit?

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Gregg View Post
      You make some good points here, but also a lot of just angry rants that make no sense.

      Do you consider yourself one of the rich? Do you think if someone breaks into your house to take your stuff to get food you are at fault?

      Do you think if someone breaks into your house they are most likely there to get something to sell for food or their drug habit?
      No, you see, you just demand that they not break into your house

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Gregg View Post
        You make some good points here, but also a lot of just angry rants that make no sense.

        Do you consider yourself one of the rich? Do you think if someone breaks into your house to take your stuff to get food you are at fault?

        Do you think if someone breaks into your house they are most likely there to get something to sell for food or their drug habit?
        You're right, at times my disappointment runs to anger and I vent.

        What doesn't make sense?

        Your questions:

        Rich is a matter of perspective, I'm sure there are people on the street who might think I am because I have a roof over my head and food in the pantry, but never having made over 40K in any year of my life, never owning a home, no savings or 401K, the fact the last new car I purchased was in the early 80s when I was in the Military, that I've rarely been able to afford healthcare--I'd say I've never been even well off let alone rich, but again--perspective--I have much more than some and not as much as others.

        Would I feel like I contributed to my own demise should someone break into my place? No, because I work daily to make the work better for those with less. What I was trying to communicate was, if you DON'T advocate, work for those with less to have at the very minimum, some kind of program to assure their well being, you will get no sympathy from me nor should you seek it if you are victimized by those acting in desperation.

        Make the choice one of Food and Drugs shows me you're really not even close to understanding desperation at a real level. Desperation is a destination anyone can arrive at given the right circumstance...…Addiction is another destination people arrive at through various paths. Homelessness as well. It's complicated and all interrelated, but there are ways to address quite a bit of it, it requires that you actually give a shit about those in these kinds of predicaments and do so without the judgmental bullshit

        I was talking with my wife after posting this last night and asked her--why is wanting to have everyone aspire to make the world better for everyone such a polarizing idea? Why don't we all strive to make the world, society and ourselves the best we can--everyday? If you strive to make another person's life just a little bit easier/enjoyable/safe/warm, ect….a few times a day, you may not succeed every time, but even if you get it done half of the time--It'd make a noticeable difference, especially of we all did it.

        Utopic? Altruistic? Unrealistic? I can only answer with what has become my mantra over the past 20 years:

        “When life itself seems lunatic, who knows where madness lies? Perhaps to be too practical is madness. To surrender dreams — this may be madness. Too much sanity may be madness — and maddest of all: to see life as it is, and not as it should be!”
        ― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

        If we aren't going to try and evolve to a place where everyone has quality of life and we're all working to make the world and life better for everyone, including ourselves--then why are we here at all?

        To do anything less seems incredibly selfish and a colossal waste of time.
        If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
        Martin Luther King, Jr.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Ken View Post
          No, you see, you just demand that they not break into your house
          We don't actually even lock our doors, nothing to steal here and if you need the change in my cup holder--just ask.
          If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

          Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
          Martin Luther King, Jr.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm of two minds on this. On the one hand, it is great we have people like you who see the things some people have the privilege to not see, to call it out, and to urge for us to be better, as a society, as a species. These things are true. People suffer and struggle, and we have the resources to help them, and we don't do enough. That is maddening and tragic.

            On the other hand, it is possible that your current situation/job/friend group exposes you to a rate of suffering that makes you think this issue is getting worse, when it isn't. I want to be clear on this--I am not saying these are not issues and that we should accept the poor level of the status quo. But the sad reality is that these inequities have always existed, and they have been worse at times than they are now. I too sometimes deal with vulnerable populations. I am not minimizing the need to advocate for them and the anger and frustration they have and what that could manifest as. But you make it seem like we are reaching a boiling point based on ever worsening conditions. Despite the growing gap between the ultra rich and poor, I think this picture isn't entirely accurate.

            Again, yes, we need to do more. And, yes, it is frustrating that we do not. But I am not seeing the French Revolution on the horizon. I am not seeing total apathy to these issues. We have a progressive system already where those that have do give something to those who have less. We have services available now. Not enough, but I'm glad for the people that rely on them that at least they are there. Millions rely on the services we do have. Some of these have been under attack for two years now, but there is still good that our society does. Not enough, but to deny it is to deny the hard fought battles to get it and the tireless and thankless work so many do to provide those services. Take some measure of pride in what we have. See it as the building blocks to the future. Don't wish for asteroids to destroy us before we get to that better future.

            I know Biden disappoints you and many others, but to suggest his election would amount to nothing good is not true. His proposals not only give back everything Trump has taken, the build on and extend the small but good steps Obama made in almost every major area. 750 billion more to health care. Billions to green energy. Improvements across the board. You may call them band aids. I call them smaller steps than I would have hoped for, but realistically, not much smaller than what Sanders could have actually gotten passed. He was never, ever going to pass a 30 trillion dollar health care reform. We was never going to get free higher education for all. He was never going to get a 60k floor salary for teachers, etc. This will be unpopular to say to Sanders supporters, but in practice, sadly, Biden's platform will probably do nearly as much good as Sanders would have been able to fighting both the GOP, and the Democratic Party establishment and the many centrist in it. That is just the reality of the battles Sanders would have faced as POTUS. The idea that he could have ridden the wave of voter desires to all the changes he wanted was a fantasy (one I allowed myself to believe, for awhile). The power brokers of the status quo would never have allowed him to enact his agenda to the extent you and others hoped for. I do not say that with glee or derision. I say it as a reality check that where we are at now isn't as far off where we would have been, even with one man in office, one voice in the wilderness, preaching for more substantive changes. But his voice was heard, and maybe it will be the seeds of change later. It will take longer than you wanted, but there are things we are doing now that are good. Don't deny them because they fall short. Take them as signs of our better nature and as building blocks for the future.
            Last edited by Sour Masher; 03-09-2020, 04:36 PM.

            Comment


            • #7
              Sour, I am surprised at how much in agreement I am with you. Biden platform is pretty freakin darn progressive, we are not talking about a trump lite here. The issue as you point out is Biden is pragmatic, he wants to get things done not say everyone gets free everything or else.... Biden will roll out Big things, but there are limits. I absolutely know Biden will get more thru than the my way or the Sanders would if he had ended up in the big chair. Environment will be aggressively addressed, minimum wage raised, greatly expanding ACA, all will be focal points. Difference is real shot of getting things passed.

              As far as the obvious desperation implicit in GITH rant. I get that is your real take. But median U.S. household income is like 65k a year. Most people are not eating caviar but this isnt Mad Max dystopian gangs of cannibals roaming streets either.

              Comment


              • #8
                Now lets get dark. If Trump wins, this bastard who now is unfettered by having to keep up even the appearance of propriety, who feels like he beat the system and now can do whatever, yes we can feel confident there will be a worsening for the other, the dark skinned, the LGBTQ community, the poor as Trump continues on the cruel path. How much more can truth become a doormat, how can the system hold? You damn well better be prepared to stand strong at your front door threshold and blood will flow not like today, all tidy in just some neighborhoods, suffered by the invisible, the downtrodden.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I fear it is a real possibility, gcstomp. I do believe Biden can win, but I too am concerned about what will happen with our country if Trump does win again. I really hope we can all come together to get Trump out of office.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gcstomp View Post
                    Sour, I am surprised at how much in agreement I am with you. Biden platform is pretty freakin darn progressive, we are not talking about a trump lite here. The issue as you point out is Biden is pragmatic, he wants to get things done not say everyone gets free everything or else.... Biden will roll out Big things, but there are limits. I absolutely know Biden will get more thru than the my way or the Sanders would if he had ended up in the big chair. Environment will be aggressively addressed, minimum wage raised, greatly expanding ACA, all will be focal points. Difference is real shot of getting things passed.

                    As far as the obvious desperation implicit in GITH rant. I get that is your real take. But median U.S. household income is like 65k a year. Most people are not eating caviar but this isnt Mad Max dystopian gangs of cannibals roaming streets either.
                    Only the top 20% of Americans have 65k or more as a household income that leaves 80% with less , in fact more than HALF of the households in this country make less than HALF the Median (65) so while it may not be Mad Max (and I never even slightly alluded to anything THAT dystopian, but thanks for GOPing it)

                    As to what Biden may or may not accomplish--First he has to win the Primary, which I believe he will. Then he has to beat Trump which I have my doubts, but will help in every way I can to get that accomplished and then get everything past whatever GOP opposition there is left. Obama could do jack shit in his second term and really didn't force the issue. I don't doubt should Sanders be the man in the chair rather than Biden he'd have to ALSO fight the Democratic Establishment as well, so your assertion Biden will do more than Sanders is correct but founded in the knowledge that even the Democrats are willing participants in a broken system.

                    My comments aren't to stir fear, they're top pretty much say--should this happen, know you were either part of the prevention or cause of these situations.

                    And no, from what I've gathered over the years in here very few of you know what it is to be truly desperate or have any regular contact with those who live it daily.

                    Just don't be surprised should this reality encroach upon your life--It's always been here, just never forced into your reality.

                    As for Biden's--Really progressive Platform, well that's a matter of perception. First anyone can look somewhat progressive if they just undo the damage Trump did, like with Climate Change, Immigration, Education (Biden doesn't address student debt), Gun violence, HealthCare (ACA was a tiny step in a much longer walk toward getting everyone covered and as we've seen it's flaws have made it easy to unravel. Even if he gets it fixed to it's original state, which he won't, it's still not enough.), Won't decriminalize weed. Won't reduce our military footprint. But if you think that's pretty freaking progressive--we have very different ideas of what Progressive is.

                    Again, something is better than nothing, but that's what I've been fighting to change--it's ok for some of you, but not enough for many, many others who absolutely need it to be.
                    If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                    Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                    Martin Luther King, Jr.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by gcstomp View Post
                      Now lets get dark. If Trump wins, this bastard who now is unfettered by having to keep up even the appearance of propriety, who feels like he beat the system and now can do whatever, yes we can feel confident there will be a worsening for the other, the dark skinned, the LGBTQ community, the poor as Trump continues on the cruel path. How much more can truth become a doormat, how can the system hold? You damn well better be prepared to stand strong at your front door threshold and blood will flow not like today, all tidy in just some neighborhoods, suffered by the invisible, the downtrodden.
                      I agree with this, but heck even my brother the Trump voter (cop etc) who's son (one of 2 identical twins) is Gay and married to his husband and a West Point Grad working in the military, has convinced himself that Trump is LGBTQ friendly. Talk about living in a fairytale--Trump voter/supporters exist in a virtual reality show of misinformation and denial.
                      If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                      Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                      Martin Luther King, Jr.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                        I fear it is a real possibility, gcstomp. I do believe Biden can win, but I too am concerned about what will happen with our country if Trump does win again. I really hope we can all come together to get Trump out of office.
                        Are you hiding a small tactical nuke you haven't mentioned to us yet?
                        If I whisper my wicked marching orders into the ether with no regard to where or how they may bear fruit, I am blameless should a broken spirit carry those orders out upon the innocent, for it was not my hand that took the action merely my lips which let slip their darkest wish. ~Daniel Devereaux 2011

                        Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
                        Martin Luther King, Jr.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          GIITH, this doesn't really matter too much to your main point, so I probably shouldn't even bring it up, but I am curious where are you getting your stats from? I cannot find any stats that suggest only 20% of households make over 65k. The lowest numbers I am finding is that in 2016, 75% of people live in households making 75k or less, and the median, where half the people make more and half less, in 2014 was $53,719. The more recent data seems a little higher. Those are not good numbers. I am not defending them, but not quite 80% under 65k a year. I am really just curious what your source is. Again, the numbers show how skewed wealth is in this country either way.

                          Here are the lowest numbers I have found: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...come/93002252/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by GwynnInTheHall View Post
                            Are you hiding a small tactical nuke you haven't mentioned to us yet?
                            Mayhaps. I ain't saying just yet, but I will say the 2nd Amendment gives me that right!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Sour Masher View Post
                              Mayhaps. I ain't saying just yet, but I will say the 2nd Amendment gives me that right!
                              You're full of shit! I should slap you in the face!
                              Larry David was once being heckled, long before any success. Heckler says "I'm taking my dog over to fuck your mother, weekly." Larry responds "I hate to tell you this, but your dog isn't liking it."

                              Comment

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