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The suicide thread.

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  • The suicide thread.

    Where do you stand on it.

    Are there moral guidelines that need to be followed? What would those look like. What about legal guidelines?

    I had a grandmother that told me on her death bed that if she had enough strength she would jump out of her 4th floor hospital window to make the pain go away. This was about 40 years ago.

    My Dad took his own life. No cancer or physical pain was involved in his decision.

    Certainly different conditions and circumstances.

  • #2
    I live with a suicide survivor. Please close this thread.

    J
    Ad Astra per Aspera

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    • #3
      J-
      Respectfully, while this may be a painful topic - it is still a valuable one to discuss.

      Given how we tend to keep people alive that are barely living (physically or mentally) this and assisted are again painful, but not off limits for discussion.
      It is wrong and ultimately self-defeating for a nation of immigrants to permit the kind of abuse of our immigration laws we have seen in recent years and we must stop it.
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      • #4
        Originally posted by baldgriff View Post
        J-
        Respectfully, while this may be a painful topic - it is still a valuable one to discuss.

        Given how we tend to keep people alive that are barely living (physically or mentally) this and assisted are again painful, but not off limits for discussion.
        I agree; if a discussion thread is undesirable, we always have the choice to not click on it.

        This is a complex topic. I used to live in a house of someone who killed herself in the living room. At first blush it seems morbid, but she was 60, had recently been diagnosed with terminal cancer, and had slipped & fallen on the ice outside taking the garbage out & broken her hip. So she OD'ed on her pain meds.

        After watching my father deteriorate towards the end of his life I can certainly understand how some will make that choice. This topic also overlaps with assisted dying - a different position on that might lead to a different discussion on suicide.

        Of course, discussing suicide in these cases is very different from discussing youth suicide.

        As they say, until one walks a mile in someone else's shoes ...
        It certainly feels that way. But I'm distrustful of that feeling and am curious about evidence.

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        • #5
          You have to break it down into reasons.

          Medical- which I truly believe we should have Assisted death.

          Others .
          Such as the women who killed the 2 kids in a car accident

          Kids - mainly from being bullied.

          Healthy adult suicide( depression) from family life - financial... I have had 3 of these 1 being my brother.

          Some I can understand the other upset me for what it does to the people around them. I have seen the lives of some of the people left behind totally destroyed. I still live with the pain of my brother and the guilt that I should have done more and it has been 15 years.

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          • #6
            Assisted suicide of a terminal suffering person is humane, moral, a blessing, and also illegal. Someone in hospice care who only knows 2 things, they are suffering, and it is terminal, should have the right to fade out on their own terms.

            The other cases, kids being bullied, desperation from depression, financial, vets with ptsd who cant conform to civilian life, whatever, I cant get on board and at same time I know we as a nation are lacking in readily available comprehensive mental health care for the people who most need it.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by gcstomp View Post
              Assisted suicide of a terminal suffering person is humane, moral, a blessing, and also illegal. Someone in hospice care who only knows 2 things, they are suffering, and it is terminal, should have the right to fade out on their own terms.

              The other cases, kids being bullied, desperation from depression, financial, vets with ptsd who cant conform to civilian life, whatever, I cant get on board and at same time I know we as a nation are lacking in readily available comprehensive mental health care for the people who most need it.
              Agreed.
              If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
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              • #8
                unless there is an incurable terminal illness, you shouldn't try to kill yourself because the future is unwritten. you can't rationalize something that doesn't exist yet. suicide is a disease. by talking explicitly about things like depression etc..you end up spreading it. especially to younger people.

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                • #9
                  Suicide can be devastating to the ones left behind. Having said that, I think everyone should be able to make their own choice if they want to check out.

                  My dad committed suicide in the mid 80's. I won't go into the why's, but I never forgave him and don't plan on EVER forgiving him. I found the body. We don't have a great relationship (if you know what I mean). My brother still has pictures of dad hanging in his home. I don't think I even have a picture of dad in my house.

                  My mom attempted suicide around the mid 90's. I won't go into the why's but I never forgave her and don't plan on EVER forgiving her. (Mostly for where she tried.....I got to deal with this up close, too.). We don't have a great relationship (although if you asked her, I'm sure she would tell you it was great). Again, no pictures of mom in my house. She's still with us.

                  Years ago, after mom's attempt, I was talking to a counselor (not mine, someone associated with mom's issue) and she turned to me and said, "Are you alright?".

                  My youngest daughter was watching TV the other day and the show she was watching was talking about stressors (sp) that caused people to snap. She told me that she turned to her boyfriend and said, "We better watch Dad!". (Trust me, I'm fine.)
                  Last edited by Steve 2.0; 11-13-2018, 08:06 AM.
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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Steve 2.0 View Post
                    Suicide can be devastating to the ones left behind. Having said that, I think everyone should be able to make their own choice if they want to check out.

                    My dad committed suicide in the mid 80's. I won't go into the why's, but I never forgave him and don't plan on EVER forgiving him. I found the body. We don't have a great relationship (if you know what I mean). My brother still has pictures of dad hanging in his home. I don't think I even have a picture of dad in my house.

                    My mom attempted suicide around the mid 90's. I won't go into the whys's but I never forgave her and don't plan on EVER forgiving her. (Mostly for where she tried.....I got to deal with this up close, too.). We don't have a great relationship (although if you asked her, I'm sure she would tell you it was great). Again, no pictures of mom in my house. She's still with us.

                    Years ago, after mom's attempt, I was talking to a counselor (not mine, someone associated with mom's issue) and she turned to me and said, "Are you alright?".

                    My youngest daughter was watching TV the other day and the show she was watching was talking about stressors (sp) that caused people to snap. She told me that she turned to her boyfriend and said, "We better watch, Dad!". (Trust me, I'm fine.)

                    I feel you- I have a hard time thinking of my brother with out mixed emotion. He was just 13 months younger then me and we were like twins, but his act was a selfish act that left a lot of pain behind.

                    I saw a statement once that said . Suicide doesn’t end the pain it just moves it to others.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by hacko View Post
                      I feel you- I have a hard time thinking of my brother with out mixed emotion. He was just 13 months younger then me and we were like twins, but his act was a selfish act that left a lot of pain behind.

                      I saw a statement once that said . Suicide doesn’t end the pain it just moves it to others.
                      Great line. And Steve, given your painful family history, I hope you will seek help if you ever begin to form suicidal thoughts.
                      If DMT didn't exist we would have to invent it. There has to be a weirdest thing. Once we have the concept weird, there has to be a weirdest thing. And DMT is simply it.
                      - Terence McKenna

                      Bullshit is everywhere. - George Carlin (& Jon Stewart)

                      How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are? - Satchel Paige

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                      • #12
                        I agree with those who think it should be an acceptable option for the terminally ill. I also empathize/agree with the anger those have expressed of suicides for "selfish" or shortsighted reasons. My mother has attempted suicide many times. When I was young and didn't know better, I took them seriously, and was greatly affected by them. When I got older, I realize they were cries for attention as much as anything. I also had a good friend in high school whose father committed suicide, seemingly on a whim and based on cowardice in the face of recently uncovered crimes of infidelity and debauchery, and destroyed his whole family. He was selfish. I don't blame my friend for never forgiving him.

                        I think those considering suicide should always consider the impact that act would have on others, and treat the decision at least as seriously as those getting a tattoo. If you do it without thinking about it for at least six months, you are making a rash decision. So many selfish/needless suicides happen because someone is lost in the darkness of the moment and cannot see or understand that with time, they would return to the light. Hell, it is such an ephemeral desire that simply putting pills in blister packs cut suicide rates. I've had suicidal thoughts in my life, but I've always tried to keep in mind the ebb and flow of life, and it has helped me pull out of such thoughts. And I was always right. It always got better, eventually.

                        All that said, I can also see cases of non-terminal illness where I think suicide should be socially acceptable, and even lauded. For instance, if a serial killer on death row taking up societal resources for decades wanted to speed up the process, I don't mind. And personally, there are such crimes so heinous, even if committed accidentally, I'd have a very hard time living having committed them, and I don't blame those who take their own lives after committing such acts.

                        For instance, there was a rash of instances of careless drivers running over small children at bus stops recently. One women killed three siblings in one shot. There was a case about a year ago, and the women who ran over and killed the kids recently took her own life. Hard to blame her for that decision. The only thing that would keep me from making the same choice would be my own kids, and whatever income and good I could do for them and the family I destroyed. If I were one of the parents who had all of their children taken from them in one shot, I'd have a hard time surviving that. They should not take their own lives, as it would just make things worse for the extended family, but it is hard for me to judge anyone who makes that choice when faced with such loss.

                        Also, in cases where a parent has a mental break, and kills their children, I never got those people fighting punishment. Even if it was the illness that caused the act, if it were me, I'd want the punishment. If I had to spend the rest of my life knowing I drowned my children in a bath tub or shot them, I'm don't know how long I could last. The alternative is a life devoted to stopping such occurrences in the future through greater awareness of mental illness and prevention education.

                        ETA: But these are all extreme examples. Sadly, most suicides stem from more mundane reasons, and are tragically selfish or shortsighted.
                        Last edited by Sour Masher; 11-12-2018, 09:15 PM.

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