The Prime Directive........

[baldgriff]

Out of curiosity, what do people think about the idea of Star Trek's "Prime Directive"?

[TranaGreg]

it's pretty good, except for the times that Kirk violated it, then it wasn't

[B-Fly]

I had no idea what it was, so I had to look it up.

The Prime Directive, used in four of the five Star Trek-based series, prohibits Starfleet personnel from interfering with the internal development of alien civilizations. This conceptual law applies particularly to civilizations which are below a certain threshold of technological, scientific and cultural development; preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them. Since its introduction in the first season of the original Star Trek series, it has served as the focus of numerous episodes of the various series. As time travel became a recurring feature in the franchise, the concept was expanded as a Temporal Prime Directive, prohibiting those under its orders from interfering in historical events.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

That's wikipedia, so let me know if it's wrong. The word parsing question I have is whether "preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them" is really just a prohibition on use of technology to impose values/ideals, or extends to a prohibition against using philosophy, persuasion, leadership by example, etc, in ways that might lead alien civilizations to adopt certain values or ideals of their own free will?

[TranaGreg]

I had no idea what it was, so I had to look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

That's wikipedia, so let me know if it's wrong. The word parsing question I have is whether "preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them" is really just a prohibition on use of technology to impose values/ideals, or extends to a prohibition against using philosophy, persuasion, leadership by example, etc, in ways that might lead alien civilizations to adopt certain values or ideals of their own free will?

absolutely it was presented as a prohibition of imposing values or ideals in any way (not just technology driven - in fact, after decades of watching star trek in all its incarnations I was surprised by the use of the words "using their superior technology" in the description you cited); to me it was always about non-interference with respect to the development of those societies, regardless of how.

[B-Fly]

absolutely it was presented as a prohibition of imposing values or ideals in any way (not just technology driven - in fact, after decades of watching star trek in all its incarnations I was surprised by the use of the words "using their superior technology" in the description you cited); to me it was always about non-interference with respect to the development of those societies, regardless of how.

Got it. In that case, I don't think I agree with it in all instances. If I encounter a society that brutally tortures and kills red-eyed children for sport, I'd like to think I'd at the very least try to persuade them to abandon the practice. Whether that society is on earth or on another planet.

[Lucky]

I had no idea what it was, so I had to look it up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_Directive

That's wikipedia, so let me know if it's wrong. The word parsing question I have is whether "preventing starship crews from using their superior technology to impose their own values or ideals on them" is really just a prohibition on use of technology to impose values/ideals, or extends to a prohibition against using philosophy, persuasion, leadership by example, etc, in ways that might lead alien civilizations to adopt certain values or ideals of their own free will?

My recollection was that it was applicable to any species which was not warp capable, since they would have no concept of beings from other planets. And the "superior technology/impose values" part is prattle. The Federation couldn't let them know of their presence. That is why the Federation always had to wear disguises when they went to planets that didn't know other species existed. Even when they went to planets where other nearby planets traded, etc., the Federation officers had to pose as folks from nearby worlds, if warp travel was unknown. Didn't you guys go to Sunday school? (No offense, Fly.)

In the second of the most recent ST series, Spock wanted Jim to leave him in the volcano rather than violate the Prime Directive. That's how serious it is. Of course, Jim Kirk, as is his wont, flew a damn starship into the damn volcano just to save his buddy. Hilarity ensued, as 4,000 dedrons of native religious culture were rent asunder.

[nullnor]

startrek 4 the voyage home is probably one of the best examples of breaking the prime directive. they had to bring a whale into the future but needed a transparent alloy. and when they gave the formula up to a guy to make it, scotty and mccoy even giggled about it. there were other moments in that movie, like when mccoy gave the old woman something to grow a new kidney and all the doctors were huddled around her trying to figure it out.

i think they just got old and said fuck it. or you could say it's ok if by not breaking it, you cause more harm than good. and at that point in their lives, they probably had a pretty good understanding of the consequences.

spock also did it in the movie where he gave scotty the formula for teleporting at warp speed. so it's ok to break it if your old and know what you're doing, or have no other choice. all laws are made to be broken occasionally.

[nullnor]

when nasa lands on mars, they don't land in the most likely places where there already might be life, afraid of contamination. they land in places where they think might be contain the ingredients for it. with little atmosphere there's not much to discover on the surface. but you'd be surprised what they are looking for. all life on earth is based on left-handed amino acids. there are some organisms when pinched that can use right-handed ones for energy but not often. it's called chirality. they want to know if they can find organisms that exists the other way. they hope this will tell them if those organisms would have a geological origin. and that it might help explain our own tree of life.

[Fresno Bob]

Watch the TOS episode "Mirror Mirror" to see a Federation without the Prime Directive, basically creating an empire based on slave worlds